That's the crazy part to me is how long this can end up being
Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)
- Thread starter wayoung
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Adapted from = the same story and characters as the source material, any change for the sake of medium.
Based on = similar story and characters, but can branch in other directions or follow on from the source material. Tends to stay with the ‘spirit’ of a thing. May not be an adaptation (Star Trek incarnations.)
Inspired by = usually a cash grab on a title, or something that mutated heavily in development. Can be used dishonestly, or at least, disingenuously ( The Watch)
Just throwing that out there.
That's the crazy part to me is how long this can end up being
Totally! Even the director's cut of the mini is, what, 4.8 hours long? Dune part 1 is a little over 2.5 on its own. And I doubt the second half (again, if it gets made) would be shorter.
Technically correct!
Personally, if it is being put from one medium to another then I expect changes.
Yeah, the miniseries blows my mind in the length. I love it but I could never just sit down and watch it lol
Technically correct!
Personally, if it is being put from one medium to another then I expect changes.
Yeah, the miniseries blows my mind in the length. I love it but I could never just sit down and watch it lol
Oh no? I just re watched in in January with someone who had just finished reading the first book. We ordered a bunch of Indian food and sat through it all. It hasn't aged very well.
Did the first part of CoD in March after she finished Messiah. Will finish it off after she reads CoD. She's been reading The Dark Tower series mostly and the Dune books were breaks. CoD has aged better, probably because it had a real director. Budget limits and early 2000's aesthetics still stick out though. I remember my friends making fun of the ski jump hair and how much gel the cast used even when it originally aired.
Technically correct!
Personally, if it is being put from one medium to another then I expect changes.
Yeah, the miniseries blows my mind in the length. I love it but I could never just sit down and watch it lol
I love Blade Runner. But it’s somewhere between ‘based on’ and ‘inspired by’ but then, it also changed title. There would be a point where if enough changes were made in a ‘Dune’ adaptation, I would expect it to be handily called ‘SPICE’ or something. (I am aware why Blade Runner had its title changed, and it wasn’t anything to do with changes xD)
It is something that film-makers need to keep in mind, and it will *always* be an argument that happens. Simple as that really.
True, and I really wish Starship Troopers had had a name change too as it would be helpful. But, if I can handle that movie then I can handle other changes. As I said, I expect numerous changes coming to a film.
The mini-series has its moments, and I have one of my favorite scenes that I watch routinely with the Duke and the Baron. The costuming is still one of my favorites for the universe, at least for the Great Houses. Though, the Harkonnen livery seems a bit odd. The stillsuits I wasn't as much of a fan of. But, I still enjoy it in small pieces.
I'm not sure where all this worry about faithfulness is coming from. It looks to have all the vital ingredients from what I've seen, and the director has a very good track record with this kind of thing. Colour me unconcerned.
Well that would just spoil the joke, no? I mean how would people know which backwards thinking fascist spank material he was taking the piss out of?
Hilarious...
Other people have different ideas as to what the vital ingredients are. And I will be honest, she knows more about it (Dune) than anyone else here. Denying that would be bananas.
I'm not claiming more or less knowledge than anyone, I'm just saying that there's no major red flags in the trailers or other released material from what I can tell; it's clearly not the pants-on-head incoherent drivel hiding behind the fig leaf of avant garde that Jodorowsky wanted to make, or the confused mess that was Lynch's (for which I had a great deal of affection), nor the cheap and amateurishly directed am-dram masquerading as a miniseries that was Sci-Fi's 2000 attempt.
It's got an obviously solid and striking production design, a sweeping style befitting the tale, an impressive cast, a director with a VERY good track record, and the basic plot, setting and character bits seem to be being hit.
Whether the film itself hits the mark or not remains to be seen. I'll probably have some opinions on the particular choices of this adaptation one way or the other. I'm braced for disappointment when it comes to Harah, the Fenrings etc., but I don't see anything to be especially concerned about at present.
The disagreement seems to circle around Kynes. And the other bits that go with that. The marrying stilgar thing is a bit weird, not gonna lie.
Eh. Seems like a fairly incidental change to me. Makes the connections and dynamics between the various characters a bit easier to frame from a cinematic perspective if nothing else.
It's easy to overlook it for those that have read the novel, but in the Lynch movie Kynes is a bit of a strange anomaly from a storytelling perspective (hardly the only one of course, but still...) He's just *there* for a bit, seems important, but doesn't really do much and is promptly killed off-screen at the end of the first act. I'm honestly not sure the theatrical version even connected him with Chani. If Max von Sydow wasn't so very Max von Sydow in the role, the character might have been utterly forgettable.
If Chani is also Stilar's daughter (be it by blood or by blade) then it gives his character a much more personal stake in the story beyond being Paul's surrogate for both Duncan and Gurney in the second third of the novel...especially if film 2 is set to include Leto II mk1. And it's not like the books didn't have him married to several wives anyway, nor was the idea of a political marriage between him and another prominent figure in the tribe out of the question, given him marrying Jessica was a possibility both seemed to consider the merits of.
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Those are my biggest disappointments with any adaptation.
I think it’s that colonial thing, in a story that at its heart has a lot to say about colonialism. And a gender thing, in a story that has an absolute ton going on about that too. Like I said way, back, I am genuinely not fussed about it in this film, and can see *why* they did it. For the longer set of events… well, it’s gonna have ramifications for what you might call the Voyager stage of the story. But I would be totally amazed if it ever got that far anyway frankly.
I still think if I was gonna do it, I would do it (a) bigger, with one of the more prominent characters and (b) that character would be gurney, because it would work really really well, and even give them a nice opportunity for a bit of star power, as Gurney is a troubadour. Admittedly that takes us back into Jodorowsky or Lynch territory, with Rihanna or Lady Gaga. But, it also opens up the possibility of a Gwendoline Christie, or Sigourney Weaver. Or go crazy and break the internet and get Sean Young back. Gurney losing a husband, getting that vine-whip scar at the hand of the Harkonens, a *woman* angry and hating the *man* that took her life and family away, and siding with the Atreides and wanting the Baron dead could have real power. Denied a child of her own by the Harkonens torture and taking her husband, becoming an extra mother/aunt figure to Paul could really have some weight. Jessica as her sister figure (when sorority is a big theme too) could really make the reunion bit later in the story sing.
Yes, it would be a big change, but it states intent, it shows the film is its own thing as well as an adaptation, and allows it a freedom as it progresses to those later, nigh on un-filmable parts of the story to make bigger changes that preserve the spirit and much of the story without having to be even as exact as this first one will try.
But we go with a character that as you demonstrate can be downplayed instead. Not ruffle too many feathers.
I dunno, it’s not break the film for me, but it just.. misses a couple of points that are important, and it could have been much more.
....OK, you've shot down Lord of the Rings and Jurassic Park. So surely you've seen an adaptation that changed substantial pieces of the story (Harry Potter? The Expanse?) but the adaptation still worked. Sometimes it doesn't, but many times it does. You have to be open to the experience, and not go in expecting to see exactly what was on the page, and understand it is a new thing. Who knows how they will resolve Kynes roll in future movies? I would imagine that they were mostly concerned just with this one. I hope for your sake, being as big a fan as you are, you can accept some of the changes made, and trust that while things may be somewhat different, the filmmakers had a reason for what they did.
Again their roles are fairly small and provide an element of the politics at play and don't add enough to the story to make them worth of inclusion.
Plus most of their plotline are centred around Feyd so if it's not in the first part would they be?
Yes, there roles are extremely small and matter only to me. They are not worthy of inclusion, I agree. I still am disappointed by their absence.
They could be at least referenced in the first part as Margot Fenring leaves a message for Jessica in the palace in Arakeen, I believe. Small details to be sure, and probably I won't think of it while watching it, but it is a thing for me.
It's a tricky thing. Prescribed gender roles (and the injustices and pressures thereof) are kind of a major topic in Dune; hell it's literally the final line of the novel! So it might be counter productive to run contrary to that with too bold a choice.
You *could* do Gurney as a female, but it kinda shifts the tone of certain dynamics, especially in regards to Paul, Jessica and later on, even Stilgar.
Kynes by contrast is fairly safe in that regard, as I think is Thufir. You might also get away with Yueh, but making the betrayer a woman might not be such a good look; see also: Piter.
I thought it was in one of the fan edits of the lynch film but was was wrong. The arobortium was in the Scifi mini-series but can't remember if the note from Margot Fenring was mentioned.
