Bill Cosby, now a free man, wants to do a standup act again in U.S., Canada

[scotpens]

Sometimes I can get past an artist and still love the art, but "Himself" is literally Bill Cosby himself, and to do so I'd have to take everything he'd done, and put it up against his performance, and since comedy usually comes from pain, observation, and connecting with people on an emotional and intellectual level to make them laugh and think (usually), it would toss up every red flag I have.

I can always separate the art from the artist. I mean, Hitler wasn't a bad painter.

The Cosby Show’s effect on racism has always been greatly exaggerated. I suppose there were white people who watched the show and had some great epiphany about racism, but this was an upper class family fronted by a lawyer and a MD. They were wholesome as hell, more than just about any real life family.

More like upper-middle-class, if you want to nitpick. Anyway, I think Cosby actually struck a bigger blow against race prejudice when he co-starred with Robert Culp in I Spy almost 20 years earlier. I believe it was the first American TV drama to show a white man and a black man as friends, professional partners and social equals.

 

[Jayson1]

I thought the Cosby Show was a important show for the time period in which it aired. It looses its cultural impact if you make it in the 90s or 2000s. Maybe even quaint in the 70s because their was some edgy cutting edge stuff in the 70s.

 

[Oddish]

I can always separate the art from the artist. I mean, Hitler wasn't a bad painter.

And Henry VIII was a pretty decent composer.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I thought the Cosby Show was a important show for the time period in which it aired. It looses its cultural impact if you make it in the 90s or 2000s. Maybe even quaint in the 70s because their was some edgy cutting edge stuff in the 70s.

Yeah, I think it did. And as someone who grew up in the 80's and who watched it quite regularly, I think if anything, it taught me about diversity. I also had black friends while growing up and they were always the sweetest. Their father still lives in the same house and I always make it a point to wave to him whenever I see him outside.

 

[gblews]

I fail to understand... so, featuring black people in pop culture is racist. And yet, whitewashing is also racist. So... what do we do?

Please explain to me what I said that brought you to these two rather fanciful conclusions.

k Cosby actually struck a bigger blow against race prejudice when he co-starred with Robert Culp in I Spy almost 20 years earlier

I would apply the same arguments raised in my earlier post to I Spy as well, same with Nichelle Nichols in TOS, and Julia. But I did love I Spy.

And as someone who grew up in the 80's and who watched it quite regularly, I think if anything, it taught me about diversity.

What did the show teach you about diversity, just curious.

also had black friends while growing up and they were always the sweetest.

There are certainly worse things to be known for than being “the sweetest,” however, it’s still stereotyping.

 

[Jayson1]

Heck positive stereotypes in the 80s was a good thing because we know what the negative bad ones were. I think that's why it's important to look at its impact from the perspective of the time.

 

[Owain Taggart]

What did the show teach you about diversity, just curious.

Just that watching it at an influential age, It was a great thing to be watching.

There are certainly worse things to be known for than being “the sweetest,” however, it’s still stereotyping.

That's funny, because I was making a statement on their actual personality. They've been great friends for decades now. Not sure how much better I could describe them.

 

[Oddish]

Please explain to me what I said that brought you to these two rather fanciful conclusions.

In your own words:

No man, this is a fantasy, an [illusion]. With all of the TV shows, movies, and even some real life experiences, we seem to be headed back to the Jim Crow era.

That suggests that our inclusion of black people in pop culture is racist. You didn't say anything about whitewashing being racist, but it's common belief.

 

[gblews]

That suggests that our inclusion of black people in pop culture is racist. You didn't say anything about whitewashing being racist, but it's common belief.

Yes, that is what I said.

No man, this is a fantasy, an illusion. With all of the TV shows, movies, and even some real life experiences, we seem to be headed back to the Jim Crow era.

But how u interpreted this to mean that I was saying that putting Blk people in TV shows is racist, is beyond me. My statement above is
a fact, but at no point did I say that “because” of Black people being in TV shows, we’re headed back to the Jim Crow era.

My statement meant simply that DESPITE all the TV shows like Cosby etc, we’re STILL headed back to a dark place in history.

Heck positive stereotypes in the 80s was a good thing because we know what the negative bad ones were

Try to understand this, Jayson, the problem is stereotyping, not the “way” you stereotype. Stereotyping is the act of applying beliefs about a few, to many, or all. Stereotyping insures you’re going to be wrong more often than not.

That's funny, because I was making a statement on their actual personality.

Since you mentioned your friends’ race, I assumed it had a broader meaning. I couldn’t see any other reason for you to mention their race.

 

[Jayson1]

I actually think most people are smart enough to intellectually understand that stereotypes lack accuracy and greater depth about a person or people. But I do think people still get emotionally fooled into buying into them often. It's hard to break through some conditioning even though the smart part of the brain is telling you to.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Since you mentioned your friends’ race, I assumed it had a broader meaning. I couldn’t see any other reason for you to mention their race.

Ok, I guess what I was trying to get at originally, was that both them and the TV show were influential to my early life.

 

[gblews]

I actually think most people are smart enough to intellectually understand that stereotypes lack accuracy and greater depth about a person or people.

That’s the problem, most of us aren’t “smart enough,” that’s why stereotyping has been, and remains, one the most common sources (or forms) of racism.

 

[Oddish]

It's a fine line. If you have minority people acting strictly like mainstream types, they get called things like "oreo". But if they act like culturally appropriate, some would call it stereotyping.

I think it's like DS9's hard to follow serialization and Voyager's endless spamming the Reset Button... you can't please everyone.

 

[Jayson1]

That’s the problem, most of us aren’t “smart enough,” that’s why stereotyping has been, and remains, one the most common sources (or forms) of racism.

I was thinking more in terms of hard racism vs subtle racism. Some people are more ignorant than outright hateful and or mean. Then their are others who are basically proud ego driven assholes.

 

[gblews]

I was thinking more in terms of hard racism vs subtle racism. Speople are more ignorant than outright hateful and or mean.

Not exactly sure of what you mean by “hard“ racism versus “subtle.” But knowing you, I imagine that to you a KKK cross burning or worse, quality’s as “hard,” while institutionalized bigotry is “subtle” and therefore not as bad or harmful.

If so, believe me, you could not possibly be more incorrect (though I may soon have to retract that statement).

 

[Jayson1]

When I think of subtle I am thinking more about people not even knowing how institutional bigotry works. Like how they don't see the subtle slights and only see the big ones like the KKK. Basically people who don't exactly have a more nuanced look at the world. They see things in more plane and simple ways.

 

[Oddish]

The chief difference is that hard racism (threats, violence, and discrimination) is illegal and can be punished. Maybe we can't stop the KKK from wearing silly white nighties and desecrating crosses, but the moment they step over the line and actually cause or threaten harm, we can come down on them like a hammer.

Subtle racism might be as minor as locking your car door when you see a bunch of Hispanic teen-agers gathered on the corner you're stopped at, or you see a black person sitting on a park bench and you keep walking even though your feet are sore. It's quieter, much more insidious, and the only one who can stop it is the person themself.

 

[Jayson1]

Subtle racism isn't more insidious, it's just more commonplace and also pretty much spread across the board with all groups of humans. It's no something you can ever fully beat because as one stereotype dies it just gets replaced with another because I think being afraid or aware of things different from you is kind of genetic and part of the lizard part of our brain but with open mindness and kindness it's something People can always do better at keeping in check. I do got a theory the best people when it comes to not being racist are those with the biggest imaginations. It's because if you have a active imagination you sort of learn to not follow such rigid thought patterns. Those who don't tend to think in more simplistic and binary ways. Probably why you often see so much bigotry in organized religion.

 

[oldtrekkie]

It's not racism to be wary of people with thuggish behavior regardless of what they look like. Once in a great while, I saw people like that in the distance, talking loudly, pushing each other, breaking things, bottles thrown on the grown... etc... And each time I made a U-turn and as soon as I was out of sight... ran like hell Better safe than in need of major surgery.

 

[Oddish]

It's not racism to be wary of people with thuggish behavior regardless of what they look like. Once in a great while, I saw people like that in the distance, talking loudly, pushing each other, breaking things, bottles thrown on the grown... etc... And each time I made a U-turn and as soon as I was out of sight... ran like hell Better safe than in need of major surgery.

That is true, of course. But a behavior we might see as innocent in white people, we might see as menacing in blacks. Or Hispanics, especially if they're chatting away in Spanish and you have no idea what they're saying.

Humans are biologically wired to fear what is different from themselves. It's an instinct that has kept our species alive for centuries. Unfortunately, it can easily turn into racism.