What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I completely agree and I think that's why I push back against the notion of "Trek's home is ____________" when the whole idea of Trek is that it can be that versatile storytelling platform. More than that that variety allows for more people to get to see it in a format that they like, whether big budget films, or TV shows. Star Trek strives in variety, not being boxed in to a particular format, which has been the tendency from all sides with it.
     
  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Considered by whom, exactly? TNG seems to have recently fallen out of favor, or at least lost some of its shine. DS9 is a niche/cult element of the franchise that still seems very polarizing. People either love it, or they are pretty indifferent about it. It's not universally loved.

    Not sure I'd agree with this. It's not that simple.
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing wrong with the media equivalent of a plate of mac and cheese and chicken nuggets every now and then.

    Nothing ever is. Every show, every episode, has people who dislike it. But in general, TNG and DS9 are considered to be the strongest entries of the TNG era (1987-2005). Not universally, though.
     
  4. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Of course everybody will have his own opinion on what the best iteration of Trek is, if something like that even exist and no iteration is "universally loved"

    I agree that TNG is falling in favour with me, partly because of its episodic nature where the characters are often just tools to move the plot ahead, partly because it's 1980s mentality is quickly becoming just as dated and just as problematic as TOS' 1960s mentality, partly because the first two seasons and the seventh season are full of crap.

    But personally I'd still call it the second best of 90s Trek (after DS9) and the third best of Trek in general (Yes I actually rank Lower Decks higher than TNG because I enjoy it more)

    And yes, it a point can also be made for elements of DS9 being just as dated and/or problematic as things in TNG and TOS, but to me at least it has better writing and characterization.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  5. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'll agree that TNG and DS9 are widely considered the best Trek since TOS. But of all time? Eh. I love both and even I'm reluctant to rank either as high as TNG in any respects other than acting talent, budget and ratings.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    More an observation than a judgement. But, I get annoyed more so when the rallying cry becomes "Do more like Lower Decks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Figure you meant TOS there.

    My first exposure to Trek was the TOS movies, which included more focus on secondary characters (Uhura was awesome in ST III, and I still enjoy watching Scotty's transparent aluminum scene in IV), better visuals, and less outlandish plots. TNG was more of the same, and the other shows follow from there. So, I never had the same high regard for TOS that many do. But it certainly remains the benchmark for Trek.

    It's like Connery as Bond. A viewer might enjoy Moore for the over the top plots, Craig for the gritty realism, or Brosnan for carrying a proper gun... but Sean Connery created the role.
     
  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, TOS.
     
  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't just enjoy Lower Decks because it's light hearted or a comedy.

    I primarily enjoy it for the characters. To me, even if they have a comedic bent to them, the four mains of Lower Decks are some of the most relatable characters the franchise has produced. I can't relate to somebody like Kirk or Riker.
    But Mariner, Boimler, Tendi and Rutherford, the way they are and hang out with each other, that could be a (obviously more comedic) version of me hanging with my friends in real life.
     
  10. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    LD is fun. It embraces the canon. It knows how to have a good time even with a serious storyline. I like it. A lot. It's not my favorite Kurtzman Trek but it's close.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If I'm having a great time watching it, I really don't care in the slightest what boxes are getting checked on someone's list of what does or doesn't constitute good Star Trek. :lol:
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    LD has good characters, specifically Mariner. The canon aspects are a bit eye rolling but I can roll with it most times. Comedy is hit and miss.

    In other words, it's a Star Trek show.
     
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  13. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    @Vger23 's checklist of important things that make a show or movie "good" Star Trek:

    #1: I was entertained
    [​IMG]
    #2: See #1 Plz
     
  14. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Commander Red Shirt

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    Much like Star Wars, it depends a lot on what generation of fan you're asking. In general TOS, TNG, and DS9 are definitely the most well liked. Opinions get more mixed after that.
     
  15. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On every thread that eventually gets to the "list Trek shows in order of preference" stage, those three are always tied for first place on my list.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    And even the B-list series have A-list episodes. If I had to choose between "Year of Hell" and "Sub Rosa", or "Dead Stop" and "Profit and Lace"... easy choice, right?
     
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  17. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lower Decks really is Star Trek: Fanwank Explosion. Continuity porn and references for the sake of references. But that's okay cos it's fun. And hardcore Trekkies are literally the target audience.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    The best parodies are done by someone who knows and genuinely loves the original subject matter.
     
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  19. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fanwank is okay if it's clever and well-written fanwank.
     
  20. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed.

    It would be interesting to see how well the best of each show fares against the best of others.

    Some examples...
    "The Inner Light" vs "THE VISITOR"

    "THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER" vs "IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT"

    "BALANCE OF TERROR" vs "LIVING WITNESS"

    "Yesterday's Enterprise" vs "YEAR OF HELL"

    "ERRAND OF MERCY" vs "UNITED"


    Or perhaps a more interesting experiment... the worst against the worst.

    "AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD" vs "PROFIT AND LACE"

    "Sub Rosa" vs "FALSE PROFITS"

    "SPOCK'S BRAIN" vs "ACQUISITION"

    "Rascals" vs "TWISTED"

    "Aquiel"
    vs "THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOAK"