The least disliked episode 2021 - VOY Season Three

[JirinPanthosa]

It’s a shame that Kes’ removal from the cast kept us from the full payoff of Before and After.

Imagine in Year Of Hell, at the beginning. Kes “Wait, this seems familiar.” (Tackles Janeway and Torres out of the way of the explosion that would kill them just in time). “No need to go look, I know the temporal variance!”

 

[Oddish]

I'm glad B&A won, even if the contest began and ended too fast for me to vote.

It’s a shame that Kes’ removal from the cast kept us from the full payoff of Before and After.

I think that B&A is what we got instead of the payoff. They knew Kes was departing, so they gave us this "what if" of her projected nine years. And because it was accelerated as it was, they could do developments that might otherwise have been majorly awkward (such as Harry marrying a person he was probably giving a bottle to a couple of years ago).

 

[Orphalesion]

Did they know that Kes was departing at that point? I thought Harry was supposed to leave until that horrid article that made them keep Garret Wong yet didn't convince them to do anything at all with his character?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think that B&A is what we got instead of the payoff. They knew Kes was departing, so they gave us this "what if" of her projected nine years. And because it was accelerated as it was, they could do developments that might otherwise have been majorly awkward (such as Harry marrying a person he was probably giving a bottle to a couple of years ago).

They had scenes that specifically addressed the Year Of Hell. The scene where Seven discovers the temporal variance of the torpedo looks identical to the scene in B&A where Kes does it.

Year Of Hell was originally going to be the end of year cliffhanger instead of Scorpion. Clearly they intended for Kes to be part of Year Of Hell and set it up to be able to have callbacks.

Also I might be misremembering but they had a scene nearly identical to the one where Janeway and Torres died except obviously they were standing in a different place when the same explosion happened.

 

[Orphalesion]

Year Of Hell was originally going to be the end of year cliffhanger instead of Scorpion. Clearly they intended for Kes to be part of Year Of Hell and set it up to be able to have callbacks.

I could be misremembering, but wasn't there also a scene in B&A with Kes that was recreated, just with Seven in her place? I think it's the scene when Tuvok gets blinded.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I could be misremembering, but wasn't there also a scene in B&A with Kes that was recreated, just with Seven in her place? I think it's the scene when Tuvok gets blinded.

Isn’t that the scene with the torpedo and temporal variance I mentioned?

 

[Takeru]

I think that B&A is what we got instead of the payoff. They knew Kes was departing, ...

They did not, the decision to fire Jennifer Lien was made last minute between seasons 3 and 4, that's why Harry miraculously recovers from his potentially deadly and seemingly unstoppable infection and Kes is awkwardly written out after Scorpion.

 

[Orphalesion]

Isn’t that the scene with the torpedo and temporal variance I mentioned?

And that's the proof that I shouldn't be on forums when I haven't slept enough.
Sorry!

They did not, the decision to fire Jennifer Lien was made last minute between seasons 3 and 4, that's why Harry miraculously recovers from his potentially deadly and seemingly unstoppable infection and Kes is awkwardly written out after Scorpion.

If they had only included his death in the season finale.

 

[freethinker]

They did not, the decision to fire Jennifer Lien was made last-minute between seasons 3 and 4, that's why Harry miraculously recovers from his potentially deadly and seemingly unstoppable infection and Kes is awkwardly written out after Scorpion.

Harry Kim was in a similar position to Picard in TBOBW1. I hear it was also possible that Picard would never be recovered from the Borg if Patrick Stewart wanted to end his contract.

 

[May 20]

Harry Kim was in a similar position to Picard in TBOBW1. I hear it was also possible that Picard would never be recovered from the Borg if Patrick Stewart wanted to end his contract.

The difference there was that, iirc, Stewart was in charge of his own fate, but Wang's job was on the chopping block.

 

[freethinker]

The difference there was that, iirc, Stewart was in charge of his own fate, but Wang's job was on the chopping block.

You're right, of course.

 

[Oddish]

They did not, the decision to fire Jennifer Lien was made last minute between seasons 3 and 4, that's why Harry miraculously recovers from his potentially deadly and seemingly unstoppable infection and Kes is awkwardly written out after Scorpion.

How little did I know. I guess it was simply fortunate happenstance that we got to see how Kes's life on Voyager would have panned out, if not for her brains getting melted by the 8472's.

Regarding Harry (shades of a Harrison Ford movie there)... there were three entirely acceptable things they could have done with him.

Option 1 (****) was develop him. Make him an alien. Have him transformed by a given experience. Do SOMETHING.
Option 2 (***) was eliminate him. Have the 8472 attack kill him. Or, have him abducted, jump ship, or fall in love with someone and choose to stay with them.
Option 3 (**) was keep him as a background character, but allow his career to proceed realistically. That means he has ○● or ○○ on his collar by show's end.

We got the zero-star Option 4.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Instead of making him an alien, I would have made him start to get fed up and disillusioned with following the rules and had a thing where Paris sees his old self and past mistakes coming out in Kim.

He starts rebelling, starting out small like making remarks about Starfleet morals not applying to the DQ and getting bigger and bigger until there’s a confrontation where “I didn’t sign on to be your lapdog for 70 years” and maybe even leaves the ship for a while only to reappear later some time Voyager is in trouble.

 

[Qonundrum]

"Macrocosm" is Voyager "Genesis", IOW it's worthless, Janeway moves around the ship shooting giant bugs and of course the ship is repaired by the end of the episode...

Yeah, but what if the giant cooties came from Harry's escapade in "The Disease", though if they had to set up a psychobonding malady for the melodrama - and as a weak allegory because they wouldn't use a typical viral or bacterial agent that anyone in the audience* can potentially relate to but instead use some contrived hocus brainpocus that Harry has to use a sledgehammer at the end with... they certainly wouldn't, uh, double the fun they were already avoiding by making an actual microscopic entity into real life size (which can't really work that way but it's sure as fun as heck to watch... ) But that's mixing a story some two years' away,,,

* except the biggest stereotype sci-fi adoring nerds and geeks, of course


And speaking of Hocus Pocus,

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[Oddish]

Instead of making him an alien, I would have made him start to get fed up and disillusioned with following the rules and had a thing where Paris sees his old self and past mistakes coming out in Kim.

He starts rebelling, starting out small like making remarks about Starfleet morals not applying to the DQ and getting bigger and bigger until there’s a confrontation where “I didn’t sign on to be your lapdog for 70 years” and maybe even leaves the ship for a while only to reappear later some time Voyager is in trouble.

As I said, do SOMETHING.

 

[freethinker]

Yeah, but what if the giant cooties came from Harry's escapade in "The Disease", though if they had to set up a psychobonding malady for the melodrama - and as a weak allegory because they wouldn't use a typical viral or bacterial agent that anyone in the audience* can potentially relate to but instead use some contrived hocus brainpocus that Harry has to use a sledgehammer at the end with... they certainly wouldn't, uh, double the fun they were already avoiding by making an actual microscopic entity into real life size (which can't really work that way but it's sure as fun as heck to watch... ) But that's mixing a story some two years' away,,,

* except the biggest stereotype sci-fi adoring nerds and geeks, of course


And speaking of Hocus Pocus,

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Love the yodeling! It made me crave for fondue during one of the hottest days of the year!!!

 

[Qonundrum]

Love the yodeling! It made me crave for fondue during one of the hottest days of the year!!!

1973 had some real good stuff... both songs and potentially what was used to assist in their making of. Of interest, the band was told to remove parts of the song, to get it down to regulation four minutes' length, as the original cut was over seven minutes long. They opted to cut nothing but increase the speed instead, and as a result heavy metal was born. The studio cut is great on its own, but that live version always blows me away - as well as the creative circumstances that led to it.