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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread
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Netflix: Neelix! The Motion Picture Musical!?
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You know, I'm self-loathing enough at times to watch that.
I generally really love serialized tv story telling. But, I also freely admit that I watch those seasons less often than I do a stand alone show of equal quality. A big chunk of that is that I love having a stand alone show on at night when I relax to go to bed, and I can't relax with a real serialized story, as I want to watch the next part.
SO in reality I would like a couple serialized stories each year, and I would love to have at least one show that does more standalone episodes. Best of Both Worlds.
SO in reality I would like a couple serialized stories each year, and I would love to have at least one show that does more standalone episodes. Best of Both Worlds.
US only?
More Tapestry I think.
Welp, I'm pretty excited now after that trailer.
I'm glad they didn't try to de-age De Lancie. It makes sense for Q to take the appearance of an older man now in complement to an older Picard (at least, I assume that's what the reasoning is, but I guess we'll find out once the new season arrives).
The Picard Day trailer was intriguing, and brought back a lot of feelings I've had since Season 1 began, before it went in a different direction.
The biggest thing that bothered me about Season 1 was the unaddressed obvious parallels to the Anti-Time future of All Good Things. Yes, it dealt with his Irumodic Syndrome (well, something like it) directly. But how they got to 2399 was different. The anti-time future took place, technically speaking, a few years earlier in 2395. But the set up was broadly similar. The Federation / Starfleet was different. The Romulan Star Empire was gone. And most significantly, the Enterprise D crew was broken up by the death of a beloved friend. In the Prime Universe, it was Data. Everyone left the E shortly after. Picard was only captain of the Enterprise for a year and a half or so after Nemesis.In the anti-time future, was Troi, some time in the early 2380s. In both futures Picard went on to be an Admiral. In both futures, he's become something of a hermit. In the anti-time future, its because his friends had become alienated from each other for various reasons. In the Prime Universe, from the character's we know, it's because sad things happened (Picard quit starfleet, Riker/Troi's son got ill, La Forge went to work on the Jellyfish that still didn't save Romulus).
So what if the future of 2399 as seen in Picard season 1 is Picard taking the personal lesson that Q tried to give him in All Good Things, and not really listening to it? What if the life lived since he left the Enterprise has been another wrong turn whose events turned out similarly.
Trailer details to follow:
The biggest thing that bothered me about Season 1 was the unaddressed obvious parallels to the Anti-Time future of All Good Things. Yes, it dealt with his Irumodic Syndrome (well, something like it) directly. But how they got to 2399 was different. The anti-time future took place, technically speaking, a few years earlier in 2395. But the set up was broadly similar. The Federation / Starfleet was different. The Romulan Star Empire was gone. And most significantly, the Enterprise D crew was broken up by the death of a beloved friend. In the Prime Universe, it was Data. Everyone left the E shortly after. Picard was only captain of the Enterprise for a year and a half or so after Nemesis.In the anti-time future, was Troi, some time in the early 2380s. In both futures Picard went on to be an Admiral. In both futures, he's become something of a hermit. In the anti-time future, its because his friends had become alienated from each other for various reasons. In the Prime Universe, from the character's we know, it's because sad things happened (Picard quit starfleet, Riker/Troi's son got ill, La Forge went to work on the Jellyfish that still didn't save Romulus).
So what if the future of 2399 as seen in Picard season 1 is Picard taking the personal lesson that Q tried to give him in All Good Things, and not really listening to it? What if the life lived since he left the Enterprise has been another wrong turn whose events turned out similarly.
Trailer details to follow:
Q's line from the trailer "This is the end of the Road Not Taken" makes me think of that a lot. It also makes me think of Tapestry, the other great Q episode, whose message to Picard was about his morality and the importance of the defining choices we take in life that is "safe". Picard hiding in his vineyard for 14 years is certainly him playing it safe, like Science Division Lt. Picard.
It's too soon to really speculate too much where this is going given the meager details we have so far, but I expect Season 2 and Season 3 to draw very heavily on those 3 themes - that the crew shouldn't have broken up like they did (again), that Picard's morality is an inevitable thing, and that Picard should never take a passive life.
One thing to consider is that the anti-time future did happen. As Picard jumped back and forth through time the events between the "Present" of 2370 and the future of 2395 all happened. For Anti-Time Future Picard, 25 years had passed since he saw Q last. For the Picard of 2399 that exists in the Prime universe, it's been 30. What if the last 20 or 30 years have all been another test of sorts of Q in a similar vein? That if Picard succeeds in this, he will have an opportunity to make difference choices. Big picture, that's what I think this is going to be about. Because every single one of Q's appearances in TNG is about choices and consequences of those choices.
So what of the alternate world / timeline that we've seen pictures of snippets of in the teaser? Hard to say. Obviously the symbol with the Starfleet chevron is that world's Starfleet. I think the other one, with the star and circle graphic, is of that world's Federation, or whatever it is. This would imply Seven is an operative of the Federation in that world. That symbol intrigues me more than the Starfleet one. What is it symbolizing? It could be a portal of sorts, though Picard isn't such a fan wank show to do something like it relate it to the Bajoran Wormhole. .It looks like some kind of warped field spiraling to a black hole. There does seem to be some Star "dots" on it like the Federation seal, so it could be a kind of artistic representation of the arms of the galaxy (though why the concentric rings and the black circle).
The use of White-Black-Red in this manner has obvious resonance with our real world. Though many countries use those colors, in the modern Western tradition, it's mostly associated with fascism when used in this way. So in this alternate reality / timeline, did the Federation go fascist? It's not out of the question that it happened within the 20 years before 2399. Nazi Germany's transition from Weimar took less time. But that was one country in the 1930s. The entire Federation abandoning all its symbols in just 20 years? Unlikely. If I had to guess, the branching point was far earlier. That is unless, this is the future PAST 2399, like around 2420. But that seems unlikely.
This is obvious;y not the Terran Empire. But in the multiverse, that would be far from the only "road not taken" dark alternative to the UFP. And moreoever the Terran Empire is almost cartoonish its villainy. Officers spontaneously trying to kill each other? Agonizer booths? "Captain Killy". It's a miracle they can get anything done. Perhaps somehow Picard and his new friends have been shunted (with some help into Q) into an alternate reality where a competent totalitarian Federation-esque interplanetary state thrives. That'd be more interesting than the simple moral inversion of the Terran Empire. Where that version of Picard didn't have to kill Riker to maintain his command, but rather is an extraordinarily effective cog in a galaxy spanning totalitarian regime. In the trailer, Picard is wearing a combadge of this universe with 4 gold lines (as opposed to Rios' 1 black). So here, Picard is still an Admiral. I guess Prime-Picard's mind is taking the place of this world's Picard like in All Good Things?
The question is: what value does Q see to Picard and Prime Universe humanity by facilitating this alternate reality/timeline jaunt? How does it connect to the idea that this is 4 years past the alternate-bad anti-time future?
It's too soon to really speculate too much where this is going given the meager details we have so far, but I expect Season 2 and Season 3 to draw very heavily on those 3 themes - that the crew shouldn't have broken up like they did (again), that Picard's morality is an inevitable thing, and that Picard should never take a passive life.
One thing to consider is that the anti-time future did happen. As Picard jumped back and forth through time the events between the "Present" of 2370 and the future of 2395 all happened. For Anti-Time Future Picard, 25 years had passed since he saw Q last. For the Picard of 2399 that exists in the Prime universe, it's been 30. What if the last 20 or 30 years have all been another test of sorts of Q in a similar vein? That if Picard succeeds in this, he will have an opportunity to make difference choices. Big picture, that's what I think this is going to be about. Because every single one of Q's appearances in TNG is about choices and consequences of those choices.
So what of the alternate world / timeline that we've seen pictures of snippets of in the teaser? Hard to say. Obviously the symbol with the Starfleet chevron is that world's Starfleet. I think the other one, with the star and circle graphic, is of that world's Federation, or whatever it is. This would imply Seven is an operative of the Federation in that world. That symbol intrigues me more than the Starfleet one. What is it symbolizing? It could be a portal of sorts, though Picard isn't such a fan wank show to do something like it relate it to the Bajoran Wormhole. .It looks like some kind of warped field spiraling to a black hole. There does seem to be some Star "dots" on it like the Federation seal, so it could be a kind of artistic representation of the arms of the galaxy (though why the concentric rings and the black circle).
The use of White-Black-Red in this manner has obvious resonance with our real world. Though many countries use those colors, in the modern Western tradition, it's mostly associated with fascism when used in this way. So in this alternate reality / timeline, did the Federation go fascist? It's not out of the question that it happened within the 20 years before 2399. Nazi Germany's transition from Weimar took less time. But that was one country in the 1930s. The entire Federation abandoning all its symbols in just 20 years? Unlikely. If I had to guess, the branching point was far earlier. That is unless, this is the future PAST 2399, like around 2420. But that seems unlikely.
This is obvious;y not the Terran Empire. But in the multiverse, that would be far from the only "road not taken" dark alternative to the UFP. And moreoever the Terran Empire is almost cartoonish its villainy. Officers spontaneously trying to kill each other? Agonizer booths? "Captain Killy". It's a miracle they can get anything done. Perhaps somehow Picard and his new friends have been shunted (with some help into Q) into an alternate reality where a competent totalitarian Federation-esque interplanetary state thrives. That'd be more interesting than the simple moral inversion of the Terran Empire. Where that version of Picard didn't have to kill Riker to maintain his command, but rather is an extraordinarily effective cog in a galaxy spanning totalitarian regime. In the trailer, Picard is wearing a combadge of this universe with 4 gold lines (as opposed to Rios' 1 black). So here, Picard is still an Admiral. I guess Prime-Picard's mind is taking the place of this world's Picard like in All Good Things?
The question is: what value does Q see to Picard and Prime Universe humanity by facilitating this alternate reality/timeline jaunt? How does it connect to the idea that this is 4 years past the alternate-bad anti-time future?
Romulus is mentioned as existing in the AGT future. Somehow, they were able to save it. Furthermore, 3 nacelle starships don't seem to be a thing in Picard. Picard is never said to have been made Admiral in the AGT future, only an ambassador (which he doesn't seem to ever have become in the Prime timeline).
In AGT, the crew split up almost immediately after TNG, with Geordi and Picard saying it was 25 years since they were on the Enterprise. Picard outright says in the present, "A lot of things can happen in twenty five years.", meaning the AGT future was in 2395. Worf and Riker had been feuding for 20 years as of 2395, but it's not clear if Troi died in 2375 or between then and 2395. Riker and Troi outright married in the Prime Timeline, another huge difference from AGT.
Basically, the TNG crew had a good 9 years together more in the Prime timeline than they did in the AGT future. Strangely enough in the AGT future, Picard says he hadn't seen Geordi in 9 years, since 2386. That's around the time Romulus was destroyed in the Prime Timeline, and I like to think that somehow Geordi and Picard worked together in the AGT timeline in 2386 to prevent that. For what it's worth, I didn't get the impression Picard had talked to Geordi anytime recently either in the Picard show.
Oh for sure, there are differences in timing. This isn't the anti-time future. I'm saying that elements of it do rhyme. They rhyme enough to work with. The death of Data and death of Troi acting as a catalyst for the family breaking up see as the touchstone that makes them echo each other . Also with the non-existence of the Romulan Empire (though Romulus as a planet exists in the anti-time future still), retreat to Chateau Picard. I half expect Crusher at some point to be referred to as Picard's ex-Wife.
It's not the same. But it's close. It's eerily close. And now with Q popping up? I think this is absolutely going to be a thematic sequel to Tapestry+AGT. And I wouldn't be surprised if Q directly references those events as a way of putting Picard on the spot about how he didn't exactly learn the lesson Q tried to share of those events.
As pointed out on Trekyards though, in the trailer Q's elaborate black lapel pin is a black version of his EAFP/ AGT Judge Q necklace, and additionally the high collar and neckline of his clothes echo similar elements on those parts of the Judge Q costume. I'm curious as to what role "Judge Q" will play in this... if Q is testing / messing with Picard, or he's if the Continuum is threatening humanity again). [/quote]
Q shows up to chide Picard for not going back far enough with the Nexus to keep James T. Kirk from losing to Sorin...
Q is the Trickster. He exists to **** with people's minds. And I love to watch him do it!
Q is the Trickster. He exists to **** with people's minds. And I love to watch him do it!
Daniels: I told myself I'd never get imvolved in another one of these messes after Archer.
Picard: Excuse me?
Daniels: Nothing.
Picard: Excuse me?
Daniels: Nothing.
Q appears looking exasperated, rolls his eyes and snaps his fingers, and Daniels disappears.
Q: Enough of that Enterprise shit. Hasn't it ruined the franchise enough? Augment virus my bumpy a$$!
https://twitter.com/TheTrekCentral/status/1409991786454470660
Bridging the gap between the two seasons - hinting vaguely at things to come?
The scene of Picard and Raffi in Starfleet uniform in the trailer?
Bridging the gap between the two seasons - hinting vaguely at things to come?
The scene of Picard and Raffi in Starfleet uniform in the trailer?
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