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Lower Decks renewed for season 3

No, you don't get it. When Pressman tried to take command of the Enterprise, the bridge crew refused to follow his orders.
They would have no reason to mutiny against Picard. Again, context. A mutiny on a starship was so unusual that the Pegasus incident was near legend status. This is a crew with a new captain and a chain of command, not a seasoned crew willing to risk their career because they don't understand the orders being given.
 
They would have no reason to mutiny against Picard. Again, context. A mutiny on a starship was so unusual that the Pegasus incident was near legend status. This is a crew with a new captain and a chain of command, not a seasoned crew willing to risk their career because they don't understand the orders being given.

The mutiny is against the higher ranking officer, in this case, Pressman. If you're a mere Captain and an Admiral tells you: "You are relieved" then that's what you are.

Otherwise, why bother to give people ranks?
 
The mutiny is against the higher ranking officer, in this case, Pressman. If you're a mere Captain and an Admiral tells you: "You are relieved" then that's what you are.

Otherwise, why bother to give people ranks?
And a captain isn't a higher rank than all other officers on the Enterprise at the time? Not sure the modifier "mere" is appropriate here, given that being a starship captain was considered rather prestigious, and being on the Enterprise-D prestigious still. It was not an assignment given to "mere officers."

It's a fine line to walk between following orders and trusting your own instincts. That is pretty much the drama of many episodes, from TOS all the way forward.
 
And a captain isn't a higher rank than all other officers on the Enterprise at the time? Not sure the modifier "mere" is appropriate here, given that being a starship captain was considered rather prestigious, and being on the Enterprise-D prestigious still. It was not an assignment given to "mere officers."

It's a fine line to walk between following orders and trusting your own instincts. That is pretty much the drama of many episodes, from TOS all the way forward.

There is no line as far as the chain of command is concerned. If an Admiral says something a Captain says the opposite, you're expected to follow the Admiral's orders otherwise you're guilty of mutiny.
 
There is no line as far as the chain of command is concerned. If an Admiral says something a Captain says the opposite, you're expected to follow the Admiral's orders otherwise you're guilty of mutiny.
Same goes with the captain.
I think that the biggest problem I have with "All Good Things..." is that the crew from the past follows blindly Picard to a situation that means their death and in a previous episode faux Picard tried to get them into a dangerous situation and they rebelled. So that seems inconsistent to me because if they refused then why not now? They don't know Picard at all, for all they know, he could just be crazy, and yet this new Captain that keeps giving them orders that make no sense, talking to entities that are not there (When he tries to talk to Q and Q doesn't respond), they're willing to follow to their certain death because he tells them that he knows what he's doing but can't tell them what it is!!!

I am sorry but I have a little problem buying that.
Because there is no line. The captain gives an order, you do the opposite, guilty of mutiny. There is no reason for the crew to mutiny in the above scenario. There are multiple reasons that they actually would not based upon the time, their experience, and recent events in Starfleet history.
 
Just as they mutinied against Admiral Pressman when he tried to take command of the ship. If they can mutiny against an Admiral who's not trying to get them to die, then why not against a Captain who is trying to get them to die?
No, you don't get it. When Pressman tried to take command of the Enterprise, the bridge crew refused to follow his orders.
The mutiny is against the higher ranking officer, in this case, Pressman. If you're a mere Captain and an Admiral tells you: "You are relieved" then that's what you are.

Otherwise, why bother to give people ranks?
There is no line as far as the chain of command is concerned. If an Admiral says something a Captain says the opposite, you're expected to follow the Admiral's orders otherwise you're guilty of mutiny.
They mutinied against Pressman after learning he had developed an illegal cloaking device, thereby making him a criminal. Starfleet officers are only required to follow their superiors lawful orders. Once their superior is revealed to be a criminal, no order they issue can be considered lawful, therefore no officer is obligated to follow any order from them.
 
Same goes with the captain.

Because there is no line. The captain gives an order, you do the opposite, guilty of mutiny. There is no reason for the crew to mutiny in the above scenario. There are multiple reasons that they actually would not based upon the time, their experience, and recent events in Starfleet history.

No, you still don't get it!

What I am saying is that the crew obeying the Captain in the first time period of "All Good Things..." is inconsistent with the way they reacted in another episode. The one where he told them to put themselves in danger without giving them a reason. They refused. This time is even earlier in the series since it's before the first episode and they accept even though they all have doubts about what he's doing and he refuses to give them any explanation. Twice the same situation and yet the opposite reaction from the crew.

I don't understand why it is so hard for me to get through.
 
No, you still don't get it!

What I am saying is that the crew obeying the Captain in the first time period of "All Good Things..." is inconsistent with the way they reacted in another episode. The one where he told them to put themselves in danger without giving them a reason. They refused. This time is even earlier in the series since it's before the first episode and they accept even though they all have doubts about what he's doing and he refuses to give them any explanation. Twice the same situation and yet the opposite reaction from the crew.

I don't understand why it is so hard for me to get through.

And Pressman's orders were unlawful as he had already broken the law as demonstrated by Riker's revelation of the cloak. @The Wormhole is right. The two situations are not the same.
 
No, you still don't get it!

What I am saying is that the crew obeying the Captain in the first time period of "All Good Things..." is inconsistent with the way they reacted in another episode. The one where he told them to put themselves in danger without giving them a reason. They refused. This time is even earlier in the series since it's before the first episode and they accept even though they all have doubts about what he's doing and he refuses to give them any explanation. Twice the same situation and yet the opposite reaction from the crew.

I don't understand why it is so hard for me to get through.
They are two different situations. AGT we're seeing the crew serving under a captain they know nothing about aside from the fact he's one of Starfleet's finest, so they follow him without question. In Allegiance they see a man they've known for three years acting completely out of character and have probably cause to suspect something else is going on here.
 
They are two different situations. AGT we're seeing the crew serving under a captain they know nothing about aside from the fact he's one of Starfleet's finest, so they follow him without question. In Allegiance they see a man they've known for three years acting completely out of character and have probably cause to suspect something else is going on here.

They didn't follow him without question in "Allegiance" even though they should have and here they don't know him AT ALL. He acts like a crazy person and asks them to sacrifice their lives without giving them an explanation and yet they obey his order. I find that completely incoherent and it's a cheat but the episode is pleasant and well constructed and this is why I am willing to overlook that it's completely absurd.

But if you wish to ignore my argument and pretend that the obvious doesn't exist then it's your problem not mine.
 
They didn't follow him without question in "Allegiance" even though they should have and here they don't know him AT ALL. He acts like a crazy person and asks them to sacrifice their lives without giving them an explanation and yet they obey his order. I find that completely incoherent and it's a cheat but the episode is pleasant and well constructed and this is why I am willing to overlook that it's completely absurd.

But if you wish to ignore my argument and pretend that the obvious doesn't exist then it's your problem not mine.
Then consider the Riker Factor. In Allegiance it was Riker who convinced everyone Fake Picard was dangerous and orchestrated the mutiny. Riker wasn't there in the season 1 segment of AGT, meaning there was no one to instigate a mutiny.
They had no reason to not trust him. That is what the chain of command is for.
Indeed, not to mention the situations were different. In AGT they were going into a potentially lethal situation, same as any Starfleet mission. In Allegiance they were going into definitely lethal situation.
 
Indeed, not to mention the situations were different. In AGT they were going into a potentially lethal situation, same as any Starfleet mission. In Allegiance they were going into definitely lethal situation.
The other side is the fact that Picard is willing to tell past Yar that he doesn't know, but he does demonstrate both confidence in his crew and their capabilities, including capabilities they don't know they have yet. He asks for trust even in the face of uncertainty. It's the hallmark of a Starfleet officer that they maintain their crew even in the face of potentially dangerous situations.

The other side is the rather simple idea that not every situation is 100% identical. The crew is going to respond to all the different factors not just "Whelp, the captain ordered us to go die. Engage mutiny subroutine." It doesn't work that way. There is a reason why "I was just following orders" is not regarded as a legal defense. Officers are not just trained to follow orders but to assess the situation, take it in in light of regulations and legalities and obey based upon their training and knowledge.
 
Then consider the Riker Factor. In Allegiance it was Riker who convinced everyone Fake Picard was dangerous and orchestrated the mutiny. Riker wasn't there in the season 1 segment of AGT, meaning there was no one to instigate a mutiny.

Indeed, not to mention the situations were different. In AGT they were going into a potentially lethal situation, same as any Starfleet mission. In Allegiance they were going into definitely lethal situation.

Riker really felt bad about not mutinying (correctly) back when he was an Ensign, and always jumped at the chance on the Entetprise. Heck, he was hired by Picard for refusing the Captain's orders on the Potemkin in the interest of the Captain's safety. You could probably write a whole thesis on the character and his at-odds portrayal of his obedience to superior officers.
 
I think that they had quite a few reasons not to trust him in "All Good Things...". Let's see why:

1) He starts his introduction speech and then becomes halting, hesitant, and declares a red alert for no apparent reason and nobody can confirm that his red alert was justified.

2) He talks to Q who doesn't respond and to everyone present he really looks like he's losing his mind.

3) When he talks about going to the anomaly people seem dubious and suspicious and Troi and Yar even ask if he can give an explanation for what he's making them do and he offers none.

4) And yet even though he's been acting strange all day, talking to people who aren't there and looking odd they finally decide to follow him without question even though he even admits that it could mean their deaths.

Well, personally I find that unbelievable.
 
He offers none but it honest about it. He is acting like everything is hunky dory. He's treating it like a crisis because it is unknown. But, he is willing to ask for trust from one officer to another.

It's find that you find it unbelievable. I do not. Nor do other situations mean automatically that it is unbelievable. Context is key. I pretty much find it consistent with other Trek. Mileage, etc.
 
He offers none but it honest about it. He is acting like everything is hunky dory. He's treating it like a crisis because it is unknown. But, he is willing to ask for trust from one officer to another.

It's find that you find it unbelievable. I do not. Nor do other situations mean automatically that it is unbelievable. Context is key. I pretty much find it consistent with other Trek. Mileage, etc.

Agreed about Mileage but it's the only thing we'll agree on, on this subject I am afraid.
 
Then consider the Riker Factor. In Allegiance it was Riker who convinced everyone Fake Picard was dangerous and orchestrated the mutiny. Riker wasn't there in the season 1 segment of AGT, meaning there was no one to instigate a mutiny.
I tend to agree on this: at this point Riker is not on board, Worf and LaForge are junior officers, Yar is herself on the first day on the job, the only remotely experienced officer we see that could feel qualified to question the new captain is Troi, but she probably senses that Picard feels he has good reasons to act this way and decides to go with it. The other experienced officer would be Data, but he tends to follow the chain of command and humans are still puzzling to him, especially in this timeframe.

Yes, Picard was acting strange and on a ship with experienced officers on board it might have led to the crew making a fuss about it, but with the enterprise being in this condition I don’t find it so unbelievable.
 
I think that they had quite a few reasons not to trust him in "All Good Things...". Let's see why:

1) He starts his introduction speech and then becomes halting, hesitant, and declares a red alert for no apparent reason and nobody can confirm that his red alert was justified.

2) He talks to Q who doesn't respond and to everyone present he really looks like he's losing his mind.

3) When he talks about going to the anomaly people seem dubious and suspicious and Troi and Yar even ask if he can give an explanation for what he's making them do and he offers none.

4) And yet even though he's been acting strange all day, talking to people who aren't there and looking odd they finally decide to follow him without question even though he even admits that it could mean their deaths.

Well, personally I find that unbelievable.

I don't want to disagree. I see what you're saying, and how this does stand in stark contrast to Allegiance. But, I think the unfamiliarity actually works in Picard's favor. Worf, La Forge, etc. don't know what to make of it, because it's their first day under his command. Is this all a test? A drill, perhaps to see who can be trusted to obey orders? They know him in Allegiance. They don't in AGT (except by reputation).
 
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