I'm not disputing that, so there's no need to relitigate it. I just regret that so many people look at it so shallowly or never reconsider their first impressions. The first impression is where you're supposed to start thinking, not stop thinking.
Rand leaving the Enterprise
- Thread starter ChallengerHK
- Start date
I'm not disputing that, so there's no need to relitigate it. I just regret that so many people look at it so shallowly or never reconsider their first impressions. The first impression is where you're supposed to start thinking, not stop thinking.
It's one of many reasons I enjoy reading the novels. Sometimes they make us look at a character in a different light. Just the novelization for Generations went a long way for that. He didn't want to take the ship out yet but was basically forced to. And of course novels can get into characters heads and explain their thought processes much better. So that helps too.
I remember Mere Anarchy did something similar with Admiral Morrow. We were left with an impression of a desk bound paper pusher in TSFS that cared more about regulations and politics than he did about people. I'll never forget the conversation in one of the stories Morrow had with Spock where he apologized for not being more supportive of Kirk and regretting his actions.
As for the average Joe out there, if Harriman had been a major character in the movie perhaps opinion of him may have changed over time. But I imagine since his role in the overall movie was pretty minor many people probably just didn't bother thinking too much about him after that sequence ended.
Harriman is less of an imbecile than chief engineer Logan in the Kelvin timeline whose only purpose was to create an opening for a new chief engineer.
Oh and bringing it back to Rand, I wonder if one reason she has been largely ignored as a main character in her own right is because she is usually there to showcase the other characters, in the same was as Harriman, getting slapped down by Kirk or Spock. It's rarely about her. Her scenes with Sulu and Green in Man Trap and a couple of her interactions with Charlie are just about the only times she really commands the screen. Although I thought her final scenes with Charlie in her quarters seemed a bit of an abrupt personality change, it shows Grace could play Rand with an underlying layer of steel if she was pushed far enough. I would have loved to see bad ass Rand in Dagger of the Mind or City on the Edge of Forever.
Last edited:
Just wanted to give some props to my guy Paul Fix. He’s fantastic on The Rifleman.
Rand has a line in the VOY episode "Flashback" about it taking her three years to make ensign. So a simple explanation could be that she transferred off the Enterprise to another ship when she finally got her commission.
Why is that odd? The movie era was the "present day" of Star Trek when those comics were being produced in the 1980s. (Although the second DC series did shift to the TV era towards the end of it's run.)
Huh? Why would Rand's hairstyle have anything to do with it? Byrne was illustrating New Visions with photos, so he never had to draw her hairdo. Giving her a new hairstyle (or placing Grace Lee Whitney's head onto another actress' body, as it looks like Byrne did most of the time) was a lot more work, I'm sure.Part of that was also that Rand is a favorite of Byrne's editor on New Visions, Chris Ryall. Byrne used photos of Ryall to "play" Rand's fiancé Andrew Calloway in issue #2's "Sweet Sorrow" and issue #15's "Should Old Acquaintance Be Forgot..."
Yeah, agreed. I wonder if McIntyre was forgetting about "Charlie X" or consciously contradicting it.
That's the version of Kirk's first mission on the Enterprise that's in my head canon.
Yeah, but as you note in one of your subsequent comments, the directing and the acting of that sequence both go out of their way to present Harriman as totally out of his depth. Alan Ruck is in full "nervous guy" mode for most of his screentime.
But that was the second time. Post-TMP, and Transporter Chief Rand was marrying a non-corporeal alien (was to have been a Medusan, but not allowed by the contract Marvel signed for TMP tie-ins) and leaving the galaxy on a no-return mission. Except she did come back.
Yes! I remember that one. I think her only other appearance in the run after TMP was being stunned at the transporter controls. She was cited as a lieutenant-commander and re-joined the crew at the end of the issue after ditching her mentally ill husband. Classic 60s - 80s reset button. I didn't know it was to have been a Medusan - that would have been much cooler.But that was the second time. Post-TMP, and Transporter Chief Rand was marrying a non-corporeal alien (was to have been a Medusan, but not allowed by the contract Marvel signed for TMP tie-ins) and leaving the galaxy on a no-return mission. Except she did come back.
I used to like it when the supporting crew were included in landing parties. I think everyone, including Chapel and DiFalco got landing party duty at one point or another. This was Rand's only major appearance in the issues I own.
Rand is actually a complicated character (although I don't know if that was intentional or just from inconsistent writing). She seems to be very deferential and efficient on duty when dealing with senior officers but much more collaborative and convivial with the junior officers, with jokes and quips and suggestions. She's also willing to tease Spock while off duty (and his inappropriate comment in Enemy Within is a bit less creepy if you accept that they were friends off duty). The overall picture is actually quite a realistic workplace dynamic.
I think most of Rand's appearances have been quite flat in terms of her personality - yes sir no sir interactions - or as a cypher to deliver plot points. It's true that one of the Yeomen's purposes apart from being eye candy to lure in a male audience (which doesn't help in literature), was to ask questions for Kirk, Spock, or McCoy to explain to the audience at home, so asking dumb questions was baked into her personality, but her major appearances have not really channelled her sparkle or her humour IMO. If Rand had been replaced with any other character (and Kirk seemed to have an endless sea of exes) the story would not have looked off.
After their scenes in the Man Trap, I think her post TOS scenes with Sulu tend to be the most accurate, and the way she teases Tuvok seems reminiscent of her relationship with Spock.
If there was an official or even unofficial edict not to use Rand outside season one era stories, or possibly due to contractual issues prior to her return to the franchise, this would explain the character's absence from other stories over the years. It's quite hard for me to fathom otherwise. Just think how often TOS stories could have passed the Bechdel Test if Rand had been kept around.
I thought she left because of the thing that happened to her that I don't really feel comfortable getting into in this thread.
I never really blamed Harriman for what happened in the Generations prologue. Even without having read the novelization, I always got the feeling that he was a good captain, but he just ended up in a bad situation that the ship hadn't been prepared for. It was just supposed to be a quick trip around the neighborhood, they weren't supposed to end in a life or death situation.
She was only slightly more expensive than Takei and they could have moved her to a day player or guest star status, like Majel in season one. I think it was the assault that led to her being dropped completely but her noticeable health issues must have made it easier.
If you look at the early scenes in Miri, you can see her face is puffy and she's wearing a girdle. I expect the producers were nervous about using someone whose appearance might fluctuate across an episode.
...I'm guessing probably not much more than it already did.
Lol, well I was thinking more in subsequent modern comics and literature rather than the show. I'm struggling to remember any episodes of TOS that might pass... Maybe Chapel educating Uhura?
Demoting an actor from her 13-episode contract to a day player?
It was a chance to rethink the cast mix. A rotating female in the yeoman role meant that the writers could use the character as scripts required, not conjuring up scenes just to use Rand. Majel kept coming back because she was Roddenberry's mistress.
TNG's writers made the same complaint about Troi in Season One. Marina wasn't needed for some scripts and got to stay at home that week. They were seriously considering dropping the character altogether. The show losing both Yar and Crusher essentially saved Troi.
I'm not sure I buy that. A yeoman is a captain's personal assistant and clerk, and in theory was supposed to be the person who keeps the captain's log and records events on landing parties. If they'd depicted a yeoman's duties authentically, it shouldn't have been hard to justify having her around Kirk regularly. I mean, it's much the same as Radar's (and later Klinger's) company clerk job on M*A*S*H, and they had no trouble giving him stuff to do. And Rand was intended to be just as much a lead character as McCoy was; they were billed more or less equally in the end titles. If anything, it makes more sense for a captain's yeoman to be in frequent proximity to the captain than it does for the ship's CMO.
The problem is that they thought of Rand as a love interest first and a professional second. I wonder if they would've "rethought" in the same way if the yeoman had been male.
I agree. They painted themselves into a corner. Especially after "Miri", I think.
Ahh, I doubt that had anything to do with it. Continuity could easily be ignored back then. Characters could seem to be on the verge of a major advance in their romance in one episode and then be back to square one in the next.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not agreeing with the writers' excuses for dropping the character. I'm saying the problem was the same kind of sexism that you alluded to with the TNG situation, where only the female characters were in danger of being dropped because too little was being done with them. The reason too little was being done with them wasn't the characters' fault, it was the writers' fault for considering women to be secondary in importance.
Very much so, although it's possible that, in Gates' case, sexual politics behind the scenes played a part in her replacement too. Fans petitioned for her return. Rand exited before any episodes aired and was also quite popular with fans. I suppose the difference was that the doctor character has a very important, pivotal niche that a secretary just doesn't have. If Dagger of the Mind had featured her in more of an action heroine role, I wonder if that could have gone some way to redeem the character and cement her as one of the Big 4.
That would be probably be about it, yeah. I'm honestly struggling to remember any scenes in TOS that meet even the first criterion of the Bechdel Test (two women talking to each other).
Similar threads
