Spoilers Star Trek Picard Season 2 Hopes and Predictions

[NCC-73515]

Well to be exact, if they explicitly didn't copy but transfer it, they would've had to actively destroy his brain in the process, which didn't happen. They recreated his brain in its entirety, minus the disease, and then his 'first' brain died. Synth Picard is as much 'real' Picard as Graves-Data was 'real' Graves, or gynoid Julianna was 'real' Julianna.

 

[Dar70]

"scanned, mapped and transferred"

Was the exact quote. It wasn't copied. They scanned his brain to map everything out, then transferred it, not copied it, to the new body.

Yes I know the quote. I have brought it up here before. The one part of the body that really makes a person who they are no longer exists for Picard. His brain is gone. Kaput. Destroyed. Except for the copied memories.

It's a neural image that was transferred. It's a copy sent to an artificial brain. Everything that is picard now is artificial. Picard is dead.

 

[Hythlodeus]

The one part of the body that really makes a person who they are

Okay, I'm not the one saying it this time, I'll let someone else have that honor

 

[Dar70]

Though I'm sure they will have Q say something like...."Oh you are indeed Jean Luc Picard."

Just to assure us viewers that Picard is still alive. As if Q knows everything. Which he clearly has not known everything according to past shows. Lol
But everyone will be happy if Q confirms it for them I'm sure.

 

[NCC-73515]

Q: Congratulations, mon capitane, you have found a new possibility of existence! Not what I had in mind when I mentioned it, but still...

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, none of it matters. To me it is Picard. Better even, without that artificial heart. Q could say he isn't the real Picard and I wouldn't believe Q because Q is not to be trusted.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Though I'm sure they will have Q say something like...."Oh you are indeed Jean Luc Picard."

Just to assure us viewers that Picard is still alive. As if Q knows everything. Which he clearly has not known everything according to past shows. Lol
But everyone will be happy if Q confirms it for them I'm sure.

there's absolutely no need for that since last season Picard himself confirmed it almost every time he talked about Data or Dahj or Soji. And then the Rikers comfirmed it when talking about Soji and inbetween it was a huge part of the XB conversation.

edit: almost as if this was the theme of the season

 

[Dar70]

Well at least Patrick Stewart is still Patrick Stewart. And Patrick Stewart is playing the Artificial Picard..almost exactly like he played the real Picard. Which begs the question. Why did we have to go through this whole boring story to start with?

It had some promise In the beginning. But than they started to kill everyone interesting.
At least we will see more of Seven.

 

[fireproof78]

Which begs the question. Why did we have to go through this whole boring story to start with?

It's the story of going from death to life. Classic storytelling at its best, in the style of themes like Beowulf and TWOK. Give me that over TNG.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Well at least Patrick Stewart is still Patrick Stewart. And Patrick Stewart is playing the Artificial Picard..almost exactly like he played the real Picard. Which begs the question. Why did we have to go through this whole boring story to start with?

It had some promise In the beginning. But than they started to kill everyone interesting.
At least we will see more of Seven.

A man dying for humanity's sins, coming back to life, basically nullifying his previous action... it's a tale as old as western civilization. Some people even go so far as calling it the Greatest Story Ever Told.
Not me of course, DS9's Far Beyond the Stars earns that title for me.

 

[Dar70]

A man dying for humanity's sins, coming back to life, basically nullifying his previous action... it's a tale as old as western civilization. Some people even go so far as calling it the Greatest Story Ever Told.

Meh....

 

[fireproof78]

Contrarian to the last.

 

[Dar70]

Contrarian to the last.

 

[Tuskin38]

Why did we have to go through this whole boring story to start with?

To get rid of his brain issue.

 

[SJGardner]

Why does it matter whether it's a copy or a complete transfer? If it walks like Jean-Luc Picard, talks like Jean-Luc Picard and is the only instance of Jean-Luc Picard currently in existence, why should we think of it as anything else than Jean-Luc Picard?

The conclusion of The Measure of a Man declared that we as mortal human beings are inadequate to determine in a conclusive fashion whether a soul exists or not. The only being currently in existence who is able to tell whether Picard is the real deal or not is Q, and he is definitely going to talk about the matter in the next season.

This series was far from the first piece of sci-fi fiction to touch upon the question of whether a copy of someone's mind could be considered a legitimate way of extending one's existence. Why should we dismiss the whole matter out of hand without any discussion, and why should we treat Picard post-season 1 as a substandard android copy if not for hatred of CBS Trek itself?

But of course. We all know that if this plot point were written by Brannon Braga in a series that had Rick Berman for an executive producer, people would accept golem!Picard as a legitimate extension of the original out of hand, and would welcome it as a deep sci-fi exploration of the concept of consciousness, souls and immortality. It's not about any sci-fi concepts regarding immortaility and survival, or whether sentient beings have souls. It's about whether the viewer thinks of CBS Trek as a worthy addition to the franchise of not, nothing else. If one thinks it's good Trek, they'll accept the premise of Picard's survival, if they think it's substandard, meaningless 2010s corporate TV, nothing will ever convince them otherwise, because for them, CBS Trek is devoid of any meaning, and its only purpose is to line the pockets of CBS's shareholders.

Bottom line is, I firmly believe that people would accept him as a surviving real Picard in ANY OTHER series and franchise but this. It's a legitimate sci-fi concept worthy of discussion but a lot of viewers wouldn't even entertain the mere thought simply because of where it appeared in this specific instance.

 

[fireproof78]

Bottom line is, I firmly believe that people would accept him as a surviving real Picard in ANY OTHER series and franchise but this. It's a legitimate sci-fi concept worthy of discussion but a lot of viewers wouldn't even entertain the mere thought simply because of where it appeared in this specific instance.

Yup. Picard is too sacred to allow such a blasphemous action to occur to. And if I sound frustrated it is because I am. At this point in time it has become clear that engaging the work in good faith is highly difficult because of the extremely tall pedestal TNG somehow found itself on. I don't regard it with the same level of sacredness so I'm welcoming of possible change.

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh I agree, I wouldn't care either way if they said he was a copy of a transfer.

But the evidence we have so far is that it was a transfer.

 

[eschaton]

Thesus' ship is a perfect example though. Is it the same ship or isnt it. If a ship is 90% replaced it is now only mostly a representation of the original ship. The new Picard has copied memories and body. Nothing more...its not the original picard.

The Ship of Theseus is a thought experiment with no "right" answer. Both the copy being Picard and not being Picard are defensible, depending upon whether you define Picard-ness based upon having...the original bits...or in a conceptual manner. A ship is only a concept that has reality in a human mind after all.

When it comes to conscious beings, the most key qualifier one would presume is whether the individual in the original body has perceptual continuity with the new body. That is to say, would Picard's first-person experience seamlessly translate from one body to the next (no oblivion)? If so, than he is still Picard in all ways that really matter.

Haha. I was waiting for someone to bring this up.

There are cells that remain with us our entire lives. I will give you a guess where some are located....

Yes, they are neurons. But the individual atoms in neurons change over time, as do their interconnections.

Regardless, we can apply the Ship of Theseus argument to neurons as well. Let's say you replace 12,000 or so of your neurons with synthetic analogues per day. After 20 years your entire brain is hardware. At what point did you cease to exist?

Yes I know the quote. I have brought it up here before. The one part of the body that really makes a person who they are no longer exists for Picard. His brain is gone. Kaput. Destroyed. Except for the copied memories.

It's a neural image that was transferred. It's a copy sent to an artificial brain. Everything that is picard now is artificial. Picard is dead.

I'm not sure this is so clear. Looking at Soji as an example, she seems Cylon-like, in that she appears human down to the cellular level. Therefore the "golem" may not only have Picard's rough appearance and memories, it may have a perfect map of his neural structure as well.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that this whole "he's just a copy" argument is based on reading way too much into a little technobabble.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Are you the same person even if you are asleep/unconscious/in a coma?

Are you the same person after going through a transporter?

are you the same person when made a borg? Or when made a not-borg?

which Riker was the right one in second chances?

what about a time travel duplicate like Picard in Time Squared?

what if you convert to energy like Lonely among us?

How about if you go into the nexus and part of you stays there?