I don't know...I guess I miss the fun part of if it.
The Confusing Case of Captain Pike's Chronological Age
- Thread starter TJ Sinclair
- Start date
Well, not everyone finds the same thing fun, do they? I don't know why people find running fun, but evidently they do.
For me, solving a chronological conundrum is like solving a crossword puzzle.
It's fun because it's a little easter egg conundrum for superfans to discuss and debate. For everyone else (like 99.9% of everyone who even knows who Christopher Pike and Philippa Georgiou are), it's not even a moment's thought. Move along and ignore thread if it bothers you that people enjoy discussing inane details like this.
Captain Kirk is like Colonel Jack O'Neill, he never reads his memos...
A little time dilatation can explain Hunter's Pike's younger appearance vs. the Kelvin's Pike's older appearance (his real age born around 2205). In the Kelvin timeline, Pike didn't have a time dilatation event, while in the prime timeline, Pike may have travelled at high STL from ~2234 thru ~2248, essentially losing ~14 years of aging. Mount's Pike's age is another story where he might have only travelled from ~2234 thru ~2244, losing only ~10 years of aging. This solution does require a new timeline for DSC vs. Hunter's TOS timeline, though. YMMV 
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.Star Trek doesn’t rely on time dilation as a matter of course or the writers would be running calculations on a regular basis and all chronology would be up in the air. Introducing time dilation is like saying “Easy: a space-time mystery of the week did it; done.” You don’t invoke Element X if something can be explained in everyday, mundane terms (for Star Trek), otherwise it stops being a hypothesis and becomes the start of fanfic.
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Crossword puzzles have answers. Running serves a purpose, even if I do not enjoy it. I understand it. I do not understand this.
Bothers? No. Confuses.
Same thing, although perhaps on a different degree. But that's what this thread is about, solving the confusing riddle brought about by potentially conflicting data points. Confusion is in the title.
I'll take that under advisement.
One problemwiht tha theory is that Kirk was captain of hte Enteprise for probably a relatively short period before "The Menagerie".
I calculated the possible time span elsewhere.. But finding that might take more time that writing another discussion.
In "The Menagerie Part 1":
And when the transmission from Talos IV begins:
So assuming that Spock began serving with PIke at the tiem of the Talos IV incident, and that tirteen years is between 13.0 and 14.0 and estimating that "Eleven years, four months, five days' is approximately 11.347022 Earth years, the moment when Kirk took commandof the Enterpise should have been 1.652978 to 2.652978 years before The Menagerie Part 1".
Soif PIke was then 6.652978 to 7.652978 older than Kirk, he wold still have been a very young commander of th e Enterprise at the timeof Talos IV, and would have gained command much younger than Kirk gained command.
Maybe Spock started serving under Pike some time before the Talos IV incident, For each year that Spock served with PIke before the Talos IV incidnt, the date range when KIrk could have become commander of the Enterprise would be one one year earlier.
However, the age of Spock's mother Amanda in"Journey to Babel" makes Spock's position of third in command at the time of Talos IV seem like he was very precocious, or Amanda ws a very young mother, or both. So maybe it is not a good idea to begin Spock's starfleet career any earlier than necessary.
Everyone tends to assume that "When he was promoted to Fleet Captain." and "I took over the Enterprise from him." refer to the same evnet, but maybe they don't. Maybe Pike retained command of the Enterprise for several years after being promoted to fleet captain, and so the last few years of Spock's service with PIke could be after the one time when Kirk met PIke - since Pike might not have been present for the ceremony of transferring command to KIrk.
And of coursemMaybe Pike was more than about five years older than KIrk. Maybe Pike was 10 to 15 years older than KIrk, and maybe Mendez thought that was not a big difference in age compared to his age, and maybe Mendez was rmembering PIke from sometime before the time when Kirk met PIke,
So those seem to be the possibillities.
Not everyone estimates age the same way. One person estimated myself and them to be about the same age to an acquaintance even though there was rough ten to eleven years between us.
That is a solid possibly. Also I don't think Kirk meeting Pike a second time at the command transfer is ruled out by the dialogue.
"Have you ever met" has a couple unstated sub questions. In this case it's "when did you meet him the first time". Not "how many times have you met".
This is my justification for Kirk's inevitable appearence on Strange New Worlds. They meet when Pike is promoted. He then stays on the ship as part of the crew until Pike leaves.
If Number One is promoted to Captain of her own ship at that time, Kirk can become first officer. Which we know he was in the Mirror Universe.
And Lt. Spock, who may be second officer by this time, might be very peeved at being passed over by this nobody from the Farragut.
Could we take that as captain at about your age?
Yep. They never say 'Check for time dilation issues', so it isn't a possibility to consider.
Why? Spock never had command aspirations by his own admission.
Theoretically, we don't know for certain that Kirk inherited Spock from Pike. Might be the Vulcan stubbornly stayed aboard the Enterprise for as long as Pike commanded her, turning down other opportunities thus ruining his career - but left in disgust when (or shortly before) Kirk got the center seat. And then came back fairly soon thereafter, for unknown but no doubt perfectly logical reasons.
Possibly even because Kirk requested him, voluntarily or with a bit of prompting.... Might be he came as a package with Mitchell, another Kirk request. After all, Dehner in "WNMHGB" paints Spock and Mitchell as old friends and coworkers while making no mention of a similarly long connection between other players. Possibly Kirk and Mitchell got separated for a long time, but Michell and Spock were an item that whole time?
One way for this to play out is for Pike and Spock to meet and become inseparable long before the 2250 date at which Pike's Enterprise command begins. Spock's Enterprise stint would then end equally long before Kirk gets the ship. If the DSC (SNW?) short "Q&A" marks the first meeting between Spock and Pike, though, this won't work, of course. But all we learn there is that Spock asks Number One about Pike - a logical move even if the two men already know each other well.
Timo Saloniemi
Possibly even because Kirk requested him, voluntarily or with a bit of prompting.... Might be he came as a package with Mitchell, another Kirk request. After all, Dehner in "WNMHGB" paints Spock and Mitchell as old friends and coworkers while making no mention of a similarly long connection between other players. Possibly Kirk and Mitchell got separated for a long time, but Michell and Spock were an item that whole time?
One way for this to play out is for Pike and Spock to meet and become inseparable long before the 2250 date at which Pike's Enterprise command begins. Spock's Enterprise stint would then end equally long before Kirk gets the ship. If the DSC (SNW?) short "Q&A" marks the first meeting between Spock and Pike, though, this won't work, of course. But all we learn there is that Spock asks Number One about Pike - a logical move even if the two men already know each other well.
Timo Saloniemi
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