Babylon 5

[JirinPanthosa]

If the US never left the UK you wonder how 1944 would have turned out.

But I guess if democracy hadn’t become the norm Hitler maybe never gets elected either.

I guess I see Jack the Ripper a little differently that the only thing that made him different than other serial killers is he had the best marketing department.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Regarding Lyndisty...

Spoiler

But once Vir lost his title when Londo fpund out about his helping of the Narn, Lyndisty's family might very well have backed out of the arrangement. I think Londo said something to that effect as a strong possibility.

IMDB's entry on "Sic Transit Vir" says that

Spoiler

Lyndisty dies during the events of "The Fall Of Centauri Prime".

I'm guessing this is just another thing IMDB pulled out of its ass? I'm certainly not aware of any actual evidence to that effect.

 

[Physics of Trekkies]

I guess I see Jack the Ripper a little differently that the only thing that made him different than other serial killers is he had the best marketing department.

That's why JMS used Jack, so he wouldn't have to connect the dots FOR us as a writer giving us the sensation of putting it together in our own minds.

And yeah serial killers that have a sensational hook and get away with it tend to get more coverage, no doubt.

 

[DonIago]

Vaughn Armstrong's got 'em ALL beat.

(rather unfortunate that he only got one appearance on B5 - a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo as a Nightwatch security guard )

Hm? Vaughn gets a fair bit to do in "Point of No Return" and appears in "Messages from Earth" though I'm not sure how much he gets to do there.

 

[Farscape One]

Yes, he was in two episodes for sure.

As for the IMDB entry, it is total bull. There is no dialogue that points to that, nor is there any onscreen evidence of it.

 

[David cgc]

As for the IMDB entry, it is total bull. There is no dialogue that points to that, nor is there any onscreen evidence of it.

I'm also sure I would've remembered it if it came up in the Centauri Prime novel trilogy.

 

[DonIago]

^I agree; I'm not aware that Lyndisty is ever referenced again on-screen.

Off-screen, she apparently does appear in the novel "Personal Agendas", which I alluded to before though I couldn't recall the name. I'm not sure of her role, but she's listed as someone who comes up in the novel...but that's set during the Centauri occupation of Narn.

https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Personal_Agendas

 

[David cgc]

"Personal Agendas" is an inept farce (the "inept" part is the value judgement. It's literally, intentionally, a farce); Lyndisty comes in to distract Vir while he's doing secret agent stuff as part of the conspiracy against Cartagia by trying to get their wedding back on. He has to give her the runaround without letting on that he's involved in an attempt to assassinate the Emperor. The last line of the book is him finally being able to relax a little after the ridiculous crises of the novel have been averted, only for Lyndisty to sneak into his bedroom to start putting the moves on him again. The Lurker's Guide has a comprehensive synopsis of the novel.

 

[DonIago]

It's funny that it got sandwiched between "The Shadow Within" and "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", two novels I find decent by objective standards and rather spectacular by the standards of the B5 novel line.

 

[BlueStuff]

"The Fall of Night"

As the Great Conflict seems to loom ever closer, we see clearer than ever that Sheridan isn't backed by a planet of good guys.

Whether it's the sleazy leader of the Night Watch (not recalling his name I'll call him Lord Commander) or the preening "negotiator" played by Roy Dotrice, the season 2 finale constantly reminds us that Earth is rotten - what use will they end up serving in the coming fight?

Second half of the episode really hit another gear from the tense battle with the Centauri ship to the assassination attempt on Sheridan. This of course led to a long-awaited reveal to the question: what's in the suit, Kosh?

Kosh never struck me as particularly angelic; over the past two seasons, he's come off as bizarre, cryptic, isolated, uncaring, rude, even arrogant to a degree. I guess it goes to show that the side of "good" doesn't have to be all rainbows and sunshine. I'd love to meet other Vorlons to see if they're all like Kosh.

Keffer (a character I routinely forgot existed) served his apparent purpose by recording video evidence of the Shadows before dying rather horribly. This alerts B5 and Earth to the foe that awaits - but based on this episode, I can only assume that Earth will attempt to propose a non-aggression treaty with them(!).

Deepening the show's lore and demonstrating more consistency with fewer lows and greater heights, season 2 was a marked improvement on the first while setting the stage for an intense third year. The Narn/Centauri conflict was excellently scripted with an impressive crescendo. Beneath it all, the ominous Shadows were built up as a credible and fearsome enemy, leaving us with a sense that while the battle is over - now comes the war.

Rating: ****

-Londo sees nothing when Kosh shows his true form - true of all Centauri or only Londo?
-Given that the Vorlons are space angels, you'd think they might travel in something other than those weird organic ships. Though I get the feeling I'm not even scratching the surface in terms of how much there remains to learn about the Vorlons.

Also, since I've now finished two seasons, here are my top 10 episodes thus far:

1. Confessions and Lamentations
2. The Long, Twilight Struggle
3. Chrysalis
4. The Coming of Shadows
5. Soul Mates
6. In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
7. Babylon Squared
8. The Fall of Night
9. GROPOS
10. And the Sky Full of Stars

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Londo sees nothing when Kosh shows his true form - true of all Centauri or only Londo?

Probably just Londo.

Given that the Vorlons are space angels, you'd think they might travel in something other than those weird organic ships.

Vorlons do have a physical form of sorts - they're not incorporeal energy beings.

Spoiler

If they were, then Kosh couldn't have been poisoned in "The Gathering"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Lyndisty, however awful, was a product of her upbringing and a lot of what she believed was a result of trying to please the men around her.

So we have reason to think that

Spoiler

if she did become the wife of an egalitarian emperor she'd update her politics to make him happy.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Lyndisty, however awful, was a product of her upbringing and a lot of what she believed was a result of trying to please the men around her.

Perhaps.

Lyndisty absolutely did her homework in preparing to be a good Centauri wife, but I think that at least on some level, she does genuinely care for Vir. And possibly even vice versa.

(put it this way...Vir and Lyndisty are FAR more likely to actually love each other than Londo was with any of HIS wives! )

 

[Sci]

Again: He doesn't have a choice. Neither of them do. These are Centauri we're talking about here. If their handlers require them to be married, then they will, whether or not they want it. That's just what Centauri do.

No, Vir has a choice. It's just that if he were to refuse to marry her when the leaders of their houses want them to marry, he'll lose his position of class privilege and probably end up impoverished on the streets. But he still has a choice.

It's a moot point, though, because "Sic Transit Vir" ended with Vir being demoted and her house leaders deciding they no longer wanted to traffick her to House Cotto.

Which also answers the question regarding Lyndisty supposedly being tried for "crimes against sentience".

I never said it was likely to happen -- I said it's what she deserves.

Lyndisty, however awful, was a product of her upbringing and a lot of what she believed was a result of trying to please the men around her.

So we have reason to think that

Spoiler

if she did become the wife of an egalitarian emperor she'd update her politics to make him happy.

That is almost worse from a metatextual level, because it basically endorses the idea of a woman not having agency.

Lyndisty is trash and Vir should find someone else.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I disagree it singles out women not having agency.


It endorses the idea of young people intensively culturally trained for a specific role and not given practical experience not having agency.

In a way that intersects with antiquated roles given to women, still given to them on Centauri.

In a culture where your only power is through your social status and your only social status is through your associations, and your education is controlled by the people with vested interest in your associations, I don’t care if you’re male or female, you’re not going to learn any values they don’t teach you.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

A lot of young children of white supremacists repeat the ideas they hear from their parents. Are they evil people or just at the ideological mercy of evil people?

 

[DonIago]

^I kind of feel the same way about Roy Dotrice's character in "Fall of Night". Unlike Welles, I don't think he's a slimeball, I just think he wants peace and is willing to make unfortunate sacrifices in the name of said peace.

But I also suspect he didn't have all of the pertinent information.

I may be biased though; I always think of Dotrice as playing good guys, most especially Father from "Beauty and the Beast", so casting him as an antagonist was kind of a great twist.

 

[diankra]

^I kind of feel the same way about Roy Dotrice's character in "Fall of Night". Unlike Welles, I don't think he's a slimeball, I just think he wants peace and is willing to make unfortunate sacrifices in the name of said peace.

But I also suspect he didn't have all of the pertinent information.

I may be biased though; I always think of Dotrice as playing good guys, most especially Father from "Beauty and the Beast", so casting him as an antagonist was kind of a great twist.

Worth watching The Equaliser episode he did, Trial by Ordeal: there was basically no money, so it's just him, his son-in-law Edward Woodward and Robert Lansing talking at each other, superbly.

 

[DonIago]

^Would that be the Edward Woodward who was the father of Morgan Woodward? If so, it's kinda crazy that between Babylon Five and Crusade you essentially got three generations of the same family.

I've seen Dotrice play villainous or at least "unlikeable" in Angel, Amadeus and even GoT (sadly his last acting role that I'm aware of), but I guess he was just such a (grand)fatherly figure when he was playing more to that mode that it stands out more strongly for me. But really, another actor who never had a bad performance that I know of.

 

[diankra]

^Would that be the Edward Woodward who was the father of Morgan Woodward? If so, it's kinda crazy that between Babylon Five and Crusade you essentially got three generations of the same family.

I've seen Dotrice play villainous or at least "unlikeable" in Angel, Amadeus and even GoT (sadly his last acting role that I'm aware of), but I guess he was just such a (grand)fatherly figure when he was playing more to that mode that it stands out more strongly for me. But really, another actor who never had a bad performance that I know of.

Don't think so: the late Edward Woodward was married to Roy Dotrice's daughter Michelle, his son Tim (from his first marriage I think) was a regular in Crusade, which is why Ed did a guest spot on that. So the three generations thing is there.