Londo always goes deep... he often puts in all six.
Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
Londo always goes deep... he often puts in all six.
Mass drivers, not nukes, far worse. Basically fires an asteroid at a planet. Nukes are bad, an asteroid impact much worse.
I love the "enough is enough!" opening of the episode as well. It's interesting in that while it's hard to imagine viewers not siding with Sheridan in his decision here, this once again shows how once he gets his mind set on something, he's not going to rest until he accomplishes it one way or another.
Which raises a decent question: Did Sheridan make decisions that anyone disagreed with? I suspect the closest he came is "Shadow of Z'ha'dum", but perhaps there were others as well.
I would be specifically curious as to whether there were any members of the armed forces who felt, as some in B5 did, that it wasn't Sheridan's place to turn against his government in this manner.
Which raises a decent question: Did Sheridan make decisions that anyone disagreed with? I suspect the closest he came is "Shadow of Z'ha'dum", but perhaps there were others as well.
I would be specifically curious as to whether there were any members of the armed forces who felt, as some in B5 did, that it wasn't Sheridan's place to turn against his government in this manner.
That's a good question. I haven't watched the series (beyond the occasional episode) since my service in the Navy so I'm not sure how I would feel about it now. It depends what he concretely knew and how he went about it. I remember most of the broadstrokes but not as much of the details and how things played out in the minutia. This just gives more reason to rewatch the who show again.
As for your questions about Sheridan's other actions, I do distinctly recall I emphatically did not like some of his decisions but I don't remember exactly what they were (although I was always pro-Garibaldi so that might highlight some of the conflict).
Again, a rewatch is in order.
The biggest thing I remember bugging me is the way he treated Lyta after the war. Like, gee thanks for saving the Galaxy.
Yeah, that always bugged me. But to be fair to Sheridan, with the exception of Zack, everyone seemed to forget what Lyta did for them and treated her like crap.
Last edited:
IIRC it was a conscious choice on JMS's part. That it wasn't intentional on the part of the characters, but the prejudice and distrust of telepaths is so ingrained in Earth culture that most everyone just finds that without even realising it they just unconsciously put them out of their mind.
Remember that on Earth teeps are taken young and raised by the corps in seclusion (a secure, heavily guarded ex-military compound charmingly labelled "teeptown" IIRC.) Just imagine what that kind of thing will do to a society. For the last 100 years, as children most people probably had a friend, or classmate or neighbourhood kid, or even a family member that just one day *disappeared*. The adults don't want to talk about it, the other kids have no clue what happened, maybe there's some hushed talk about strangers in black uniforms and leather gloves, but the overwhelming expectation is to just carry on and pretend like they never existed. Don't think about it. Maybe someone does talk about it, but then they show up the next day with a headache and no memory of the last day...and most people get the message and don't even *think* questions.
So when people forget about Lyta until they need something, it's probably not them intentionally shunning so much as a Pavlovian Response to being around any telepath in a social situation. I mean did anyone besides Garibaldi (who's motivations were obvious) even try and socialise with Talia either?
Remember that on Earth teeps are taken young and raised by the corps in seclusion (a secure, heavily guarded ex-military compound charmingly labelled "teeptown" IIRC.) Just imagine what that kind of thing will do to a society. For the last 100 years, as children most people probably had a friend, or classmate or neighbourhood kid, or even a family member that just one day *disappeared*. The adults don't want to talk about it, the other kids have no clue what happened, maybe there's some hushed talk about strangers in black uniforms and leather gloves, but the overwhelming expectation is to just carry on and pretend like they never existed. Don't think about it. Maybe someone does talk about it, but then they show up the next day with a headache and no memory of the last day...and most people get the message and don't even *think* questions.
So when people forget about Lyta until they need something, it's probably not them intentionally shunning so much as a Pavlovian Response to being around any telepath in a social situation. I mean did anyone besides Garibaldi (who's motivations were obvious) even try and socialise with Talia either?
It's probably been discussed elsewhere in this thread, but I think there's also some feeling that Sheridan wasn't at all thrilled that Lyta blew up Z'ha'dum, and his goodwill toward her may have been severely compromised at that point.
Whether Lyta's actions there really do merit such a sharp decline in his trust/goodwill toward her is, I guess, left as an exercise for the viewer.
Whether Lyta's actions there really do merit such a sharp decline in his trust/goodwill toward her is, I guess, left as an exercise for the viewer.
I'm about 90% sure that's not the case. I mean it probably made him trust her a little less (though not so little that his tactical master stroke at Mars didn't hinge squarely on her) but her motivations were clear. Mostly he was angry at her acting on her own without even discussing it. Military leaders can be funny about that kind of thing...
I just realized, we should probably spoiler tag these musings, so it doesn't spoil the fun for the one reviewing the episodes.
Same result, different reason and episode. I believe it still stems from what happened at Z'Ha'Dum.
Just his ex wife...
It's uncomfortable to think that it's an aspect of military culture to have less loyalty to their country than to the person in charge of it.
I was really surprised how little Keffer was in S2 when re-watching B5 with my partner (her first time seeing it). I had remembered he died at the end of S2 after searching out the Shadows, and I'd been looking forward to that as an interesting, tragic recurring subplot. I assumed we would see him encounter a Shadow vessel for the first time, become obsessed with proving that they're real and finding them, going out of his way to search for them, and then finally get what he wanted only to die for it... But instead we got like maybe one episode where he mentions searching for them in passing. We basically got him seeing one for the first time mid-season, and then searching and dying for them all compressed into the finale.
Makes some sense if the character was forced on JMS, I suppose. But I think it was a missed opportunity. (Doubly missed opportunity if the actor just wasn't able to carry a dramatic scene.)
I just figure it was economics. Like, Delenn and Lenier both mention at various points that the new command uniforms are made of rare and expensive fabrics from Minbar. Meanwhile, the new independent State of Babylon 5 has a crew of thousands who can't really wear their old EarthForce uniforms anymore, since they've legally declared independence and are no more part of EarthForce than the Minute Men were Redcoats. And they've been cut off from the Earth Alliance and have a population of only around a quarter-million people, so the size of their economy (especially after only a few months) is limited. They're basically a city-state in space, and they've got to devote whatever money and resources they have towards military preparedness. In that context, I think it makes sense that expensive new uniforms would only go to the command staff and that the rest of the crew would essentially start wearing semi-informal uniforms with a B5 patch on them to replace the Earth Alliance emblem.
Side-note: While it is 100% justified, I am always faintly amused that Sheridan literally turns himself into a military dictator in order to defeat Clarke. The State of Babylon 5 ain't exactly a democracy, and apparently his office is Military Governor!
I agree, it's a bit ironic, although to be fair, B5 was sort of under martial law so I don't know how else it could have been run. Essentially declaring independence cut the station off from the civilian overseers in Earth Senate. Sheridan was essentially captaining a stationary spaceship.
Worth remembering that B5 is primarily a hub. Aside from the Lurkers, most everyone that lives there long term works there and they only make up a relatively small fraction of the population, the lion's share of which is almost constantly in-transit.
Would you expect a major international airport/hotel to be run like a democracy? Because that's what B5 is, essentially.
Would you expect a major international airport/hotel to be run like a democracy? Because that's what B5 is, essentially.
Remember that the government he staged a military coup against wasn't a legitimate government.
Similar threads
