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Clancy's Map of 2399 compared to the Star Charts

So M-A Policy is that if there's conflicting information, you include both with a background note explaining the conflict. No one has gotten around to do that for Vulcan or the other systems yet.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Alpha:Point_of_view#Conflicts_in_valid_resources

If Sol is on the dividing line is Earth in Alpha or Beta Quadrant? Or due to the rotation around the sun is it in Alpha half the year and Beta the other half?

Also isn't the sun itself slowly moving through the galaxy?
 
Better to trust the PIC map in Clancy's office and on the Zheng He bridge - the same map - than the one in Lorca's ready room on DSC. And yes, the Alpha-Beta line runs through Sol and the galactic core.
 
The DSC map is a 23d or 32dcentiry version? Does PIC map have the same quadrant boundaries as Star Charts?
Maybe the boundaries changed between the 25th and 32d century?
 
The DSC map is a 23d or 32dcentiry version? Does PIC map have the same quadrant boundaries as Star Charts?
Maybe the boundaries changed between the 25th and 32d century?
The DSC map we're talking about is from Season 1, the PIC map follows the A/B boundaries from Stellar Cartography.
 
The Discovery one is the one with the off centre quadrant border, not the Picard one.
Yes, we're all aware of that. What made you think we weren't?

If Sol is on the dividing line is Earth in Alpha or Beta Quadrant? Or due to the rotation around the sun is it in Alpha half the year and Beta the other half?

We don't know. We know that the meridian runs through either the Solar System, or Earth itself. Both things have been said, in a somewhat informal context in the Encyclopedia, Star Charts and elsewhere. So we don't know exactly what it's supposed to be.

My personal inclination is that Earth spends half the year in Alpha, and half in Beta. But that's just me.
 
The DSC map is a 23d or 32dcentiry version? Does PIC map have the same quadrant boundaries as Star Charts?
Maybe the boundaries changed between the 25th and 32d century?

The Discovery map is seen in Season One, so it's a 23rd century map. It's also seen in Season Three, though less clearly, but it appears to be basically the same. That's just a case of reused graphics. There may be some cosmetic variation in the season three version, but I don't think we've gotten a good enough look at it to be sure. It's essentially the same as the 23rd century version, though.

What I'm afraid all this is going to lead to is someone feeling the need to write a novel explaining why the Quadrant border changed from "one sector east of Sol" to Earth-centric, and then back again.

And frankly, I like the Picard/Stellar Cartography version better than what's in DSC, but mostly I just want some damned consistency and an explanation for why they changed it from what's been used for almost 30 years.
 
I always thought that the quadrant boundary running through the Sol system was a stupid idea. It contradicts countless unqualified references in DS9 and VGR to Earth and the Federation being in the Alpha Quadrant.
 
Better to trust the PIC map in Clancy's office and on the Zheng He bridge - the same map - than the one in Lorca's ready room on DSC. And yes, the Alpha-Beta line runs through Sol and the galactic core.

But again, we saw the DSC map. We didn't really see the PIC ones.

That is, the A/B dashed line is visible to us in the former. No line is visible to us in the latter. Not even to the degree that the giant rubber duck is visible on the E-D MSD.

Dialogue remains merciful here. We never get a straightforward "the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant", as opposed to the multiple and varied "we from the Alpha Quadrant will trespass Gamma just as often as we wish" or "I'm currently in the Beta Quadrant but I won't tell you whether I'm in the UFP or not". And there's absolutely no mention of the dividing line itself. Yet.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Maybe I should assume the DSC map is a transient artifact of time travel, and the PIC/Star Charts is the "true" map
 
...Yet again, why? There's precious little enthusiasm for the idea that the A/B line should run through Earth, what with all the complications involved.

We might think that having the A/B line and the sector grid somehow relate to each other would be a good idea, though. And perhaps it does, only the A/B line runs along the sector line one step to the right ( anticlockwise) of Earth. In the usual, 20 ly by 20 ly by 20 ly grid, that is, and not in the different, smaller grid used in that particular DSC map.

Timo Saloniemi
 
...Yet again, why? There's precious little enthusiasm for the idea that the A/B line should run through Earth, what with all the complications involved.

We might think that having the A/B line and the sector grid somehow relate to each other would be a good idea, though. And perhaps it does, only the A/B line runs along the sector line one step to the right ( anticlockwise) of Earth. In the usual, 20 ly by 20 ly by 20 ly grid, that is, and not in the different, smaller grid used in that particular DSC map.

Timo Saloniemi

I thought the DSC map is using a 20x20x20 grid, and the PIC map is using 15x15x15...
 
Oops, yes, sort of. The Star Charts / Stellar Cartography grid is 20x20 against real stars, to the best knowledge of two decades ago. What DSC has appears to be ever-so-slightly larger, against certain map highlights - but those highlights, ranging from real stars to Trek phenomena, also slightly move around at seeming random so it's difficult to be sure. The A/B line there is about 1.2 Star Charts grid units to the right of Earth, or 1.4 DSC chart grid units to the right of the gridline that supposedly would go through Sol, but that's not due to the scale of the grid, but to the vagaries of placement of Sol... Or, in other words, the whole DSC grid appears shifted by those 0.2 units of difference.

The PIC map has seven grid squares from Earth to Qo'noS, as opposed to the four in Star Charts. So something like 11+ lightyears per square... But we can always squint and say those are quadrants! That is, unless we see the map up close in a future episode, we can settle for observing the pretty colors of the (former and current) empires, and the quadrants can then be interpreted as 10x10x10 cubes that might be found inside the 20x20x20 sectors. Even if there are eight to each sector rather than the four suggested by the name.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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Because they made a mistake on DSC with Lorca's map. One that's since been remedied.
 
What really bothers me about the shift on the DSC map, is that Memory Alpha is taking that as gospel. As Memory Alpha gets used by writers as a quick research tool, it's going to have an impact both on canon and licensed material going forward.

Unless the Picard map somehow makes another appearance and takes precedence, we're probably going to lose the "Sol is on the Alpha/Beta meridian" concept going forward. I really don't want that to happen.

I really want it to happen: I never got the appeal of this idea, and the alpha/beta border cutting through Romulan and Klingon space makes more sense, especially with DS9.
 
On the subject of S2 maps, this one showing the route of Spock's shuttle is another reuse of Star Charts material. Only, we have to disregard the apparent orientation and scale wrt what looks like the shape of the Milky Way on the background; perhaps this is just Pike's default background art for his graphics?

"In reality", the elongated block of space we see goes from Sol (at the far end) towards Star Charts right or anticlockwise (at the close end), "horizontally" cutting through the area where Klingon space brushes against Romulan space. We see Spock go past highlights such as Beta Lankal, H'Atoria and SB 105, while flying through the Mempa Sector or thereabouts.

Or, since the map is so vague, Spock is flying above or below Mempa, or at least above or below the Klingon-controlled parts of Mempa. This region of Klingon space was always intended in the original maps to be but a slender pseudopod the Klingons are extending towards the Romulans, in a region of space the Feds feel is their own, so that the Romulan Neutral Zone of human making extends all the way to this area. (It's also probably where the Delphic Expanse used to reside, keeping the usual suspects away from each other's throats until Archer's team removed the obstacle!)

In any case, this is one of the poorer maps of the spinoff. A Class C shuttle traveling across all those sectors in the mere weeks allotted is potentially doable, but a bit curious. And since it's all a sham and Spock sent the shuttle on its merry way while himself hiding in his parents' basement, we can't argue the shuttle would be making pit stops to facilitate its long journey. Also, the heroes appear to warp to that location, rather than spore-jump; their warping begins with "Obol for Charon" but is rudely interrupted there, and is concluded very soon thereafter in "Saints of Imperfection", at most hours after said interruption. How did the apparently slowish hero ship go across all those sectors if the starting point was a location where they could pick up Nhan and get visited by Number One?

Or did those two (and arguably also Reno) themselves travel across multiple sectors to meet with Pike? In the episode before that, "Point of Light", everybody came, including Amanda née Grayson. Were they all out in the sticks, too? If not, what excuse did Pike have to travel from the "Point of Light" spot to the putatively distant "Obol for Charon" spot when he had no leads and no mission?

But that's yer standard Trek travel time and distance mystery-fuckuppery fer ya. The map itself is its own issue, and as such another reuse of standard stock. Without any mention of a quadrant border, I might add, even though it would run through that map in all interpretations!

Timo Saloniemi
 
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