Hotel Royale
Great, Overlooked TNG Episodes
- Thread starter KevinGrem
- Start date
Even though it was a very different situation, one wonders what Picard must have thought about Sisko becoming the Emissary, a man he was involved in getting to that Bajor command himself.
This planet; what do you call it?
...Earrrth...what do you call it?
Theta 116.
How charming.
I think he would approve how Sisko approached it in the first few years, but when they started getting personal, it got harder for the Sisko. I remember distinctly Admiral Ross giving him a direct order to ignore a vision to go to a disastrous battle.
I always thought it was not even really a RELIGIOUS dilemma though since we get to SEE the Prophets' visions and we get to KNOW Sisko is not crazy to doubt the wisdom of the battle on their Word alone.
It kind of undercuts the whole "religiosity" of the Prophets for us the viewer. Due to their long history of loving and protecting Bajor and due to the proven effects of time in their level and its non-linearity, we all have solid evidence and good reasoning to trust their word for practically the whole series.
It's not really a qualified "leap of faith".
True, it wouldn't be a leap of fath for him (*) nor even for Starfleet. I was just referring to the fact that Sisko very much became a religious figure in the eyes of the Bajoran public, and Sisko's gradual acceptance of that role (regardless of whether he liked it or not), something Picard probably had very ambiguous feelings about.
(*) although, literally, it is, if you take 'faith' to mean 'trust'. Sisko learns to trust their judgement even though they are no religious icons to him.
Last edited:
Ive been binge watching Season 7 of Star Trek Next Generation and noticed some things
the Cardassians pretty much the General Custer type soldiers where theyre forcing not only Bajorans off of planets but also Native Americans that were living on a planet where theyre also forced to move. Same episode where Wesley learns from the Traveler how to stop/pause time
the Cardassians pretty much the General Custer type soldiers where theyre forcing not only Bajorans off of planets but also Native Americans that were living on a planet where theyre also forced to move. Same episode where Wesley learns from the Traveler how to stop/pause time
Here's my list by season. I left out anything that's typically listed in Top-10/20 lists. Some of these are in my Top 10 list, even though they may appear in few others'. I've bolded ones that are in my Top 10 TNG list--maybe Top 12. I've never actually sat down and made a list.
The Arsenal of Freedom
The Neutral Zone
Where Silence has Lease
The Royale
Up the Long Ladder
Who Watches the Watchers
The Defector
The Most Toys
Remember Me
Future Imperfect
Devil's Due
Clues
A Matter of Time
Conundrum
Time's Arrow I
Schisms
Starship Mine
The Chase
Frame of Mind
Sub Rosa*
*Naw, just fucking kidding, dude.
The Arsenal of Freedom
The Neutral Zone
Where Silence has Lease
The Royale
Up the Long Ladder
Who Watches the Watchers
The Defector
The Most Toys
Remember Me
Future Imperfect
Devil's Due
Clues
A Matter of Time
Conundrum
Time's Arrow I
Schisms
Starship Mine
The Chase
Frame of Mind
Sub Rosa*
*Naw, just fucking kidding, dude.
I'd go further: DS9 presented us with one "true" religion, with one "true" interpretation.
It's clear that we're meant to think the Vorta/Jem'hadar's religion is false and nefarious, the Klingon religion as harmful cultural practices but with no real substance, the Ferengi religion as a joke and the Bajoran religion as true and beneficial, so long as you don't go full fanatic (early Winn, the "other emissary") or turn towards the "bad ones" (cult of the Pagh-wraiths, late Dukat and late Winn).
The prophets/gods and pagh-wraiths/devils do exist, they are fantastical beings, they do interfere in world events, ... you could argue that they're no more gods than Q, but the difference is that Q is treated like an omnipotent being with little morality, whereas the prophets are beings that guide many characters, including Sisko (by S7) and Kira.
I'm not sure it's very nuanced in doing that, it's just an allegory for Abrahamic religions (probably christianity in particular), and the existence of competing interpretations doesn't really help in that regard: sectarian conflict isn't exactly uncommon.
It's say DS9's approach is more in tune with the (American) status quo, not more nuanced.
What I think is interesting about the depiction of Bajoran religion is that even though it's portrayed as true and validated for the Bajorans (and the Prophets confirmed as existing entitities), it seems to make no claim at universality even though it does influence events on a galactic scale every now and then. That is, there seems to be no attempt at proselytizing outsiders into the religion. That seems more in line with some views in antiquity, that each nation had their own god(s) but those gods were still able to effect supranational events.
Ancient Nations often tended to work with the idea that the gods of other peoples were just their own under different names though. Something that doesn't seem be the case with the Bajorans, to them the Prophets seem to be "of Bajor" and "for Bajor" exclusively, even if they sometimes influence galactic events.So it seems they are more akin to an ancient reginal deity that was worshipped in one location exclusively, or was exalted over all other gods by the locals, like the Artemis of Ephesus.
It would be interesting to know whether the Bajorans believed that other planets or species had their own "Prophets" or whether they believed themselves to be an exclusively chosen people, like the Ancient Hebrews eventually came to view themselves.
There are some bad episodes, even some unwatchable ones, but I agree, there are some that are generally disliked that are very rewatchable, season 1 and 2 included.
Some of your episodes are in my top 25 TNG eps!
RAMA
Some of your episodes are in my top 25 TNG eps!
RAMA
Generally confused by your post in that you take my point further but argue that DS9 is not as nuanced as I imagine?
I will say this though: DS9 was one of the most interesting looks at religion and theology that has ever been on TV. And is more nuanced than I think even you are seeing.
Why does early Winn never get a vision from the Prophets? Why does Winn get a vision from the Pagh-wraiths? We as viewers know why and could probably explain it using only the terms and concepts within Bajoran theology to any given Vedek ....WITHOUT EVER BEING DIRECTLY TOLD BY THE WRITERS.
That is nuance imo.
Edit: Bold was merely for emphasis - not emotional here. Cheers
Most underrated two-parter for sure.
Where we learn the Enterprise holodeck can accidentally create sapient life...and then just run it as usual for 6 years until that life creates a wife? Pass.
4 years.
Accidentally? They specified the computer program a hologram capable of defeating Data - including the ability to gain awareness of holo-technology and the external universe beyond the holodeck. That isn't ridiculous to imagine AI getting that sophisticated these days. Is that sapient life? To say they err on the side of caution and suppose it is in Part One and then rue the fact they ignored it for so long in Part Two is characterization to me that they deep down do not believe Moriarty is sentient - you can point to Picard being inconsistent vs. his own self in The Measure of a Man but in my memory, they kind of admit that in Part Two so it's not necessarily bad writing there.
Cheers
The whole "sentient holograms" thing was stupid on the face of it. The holograms are computer programs, ergo it's the Enterprise computer that somehow created sentience. Who needs a Dr. Soong when you can just tell your Commodore 64,000 to "make up a character smarter than anyone in your databank" and bang.
Dumb da dumb dumb.
Dumb da dumb dumb.
Nope. All Geordie said was "the ability to defeat Data". A hologram of a stronger faster android would've fit the bill. Pure accident. Apparently with no record of what the computer did or how, because they were still studying it years later (but, again, letting any one use the holodeck as usual).
Similar threads
