Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[Turtletrekker]

Anyone who thinks Steve would just sit back and allow his best friend to be tortured by Hydra while that same organization totally corrupt the life's work of the woman he married didn't pay any attention at all to any to who he is. It's totally against his character. That was the whole point of the Civil War movie was that he couldn't just sit there idly while bad things happened.

It's like Peggy said to him, "Sometimes the best you can do is to start over". And that's exactly what he did.

 

[Booji]

Anyone who thinks Steve would just sit back and allow his best friend to be tortured by Hydra while that same organization totally corrupt the life's work of the woman he married didn't pay any attention at all to any to who he is. It's totally against his character. That was the whole point of the Civil War movie was that he couldn't just sit there idly while bad things happened.

It's like Peggy said to him, "Sometimes the best you can do is to start over". And that's exactly what he did.

Why would Steve mess with the timeline when he knows everything works out for the best and they "won"? It would totally go against his character, would it not?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Why would Steve mess with the timeline when he knows everything works out for the best and they "won"? It would totally go against his character, would it not?

Everything work out for the best? His best friend spent decades being tortured. And what kind of a shitstain would he have to be spend all those years with Peggy while she was the head of SHIELD and not tell her that the organization has been corrupted from within and not say anything? That would be despicable.

 

[Booji]

Everything work out for the best? His best friend spent decades being tortured. And what kind of a shitstain would he have to be spend all those years with Peggy while she was the head of SHIELD and not tell her that the organization has been corrupted from within and not say anything? That would be despicable.

What would be despicable is screwing up the timeline even more, knowing Bucky turns out ok in the future. He knows Hyrda is defeated. He knows Thanos, who is a bigger deal than any of these other problems, is defeated and the people lost in the snap are back. Steve wouldn't be selfish to mess with the timeline like that.

 

[Anwar]

I think it's pretty good that we've only had 1 actual episode with Walker so far and we're all so torn on our ideas about him and our interpretation.

Usually you need to be HBO Level TV to get this kind of discussion going in such a short time.

 

[Reverend]

Anyone who thinks Steve would just sit back and allow his best friend to be tortured by Hydra while that same organization totally corrupt the life's work of the woman he married didn't pay any attention at all to any to who he is. It's totally against his character. That was the whole point of the Civil War movie was that he couldn't just sit there idly while bad things happened.

It's like Peggy said to him, "Sometimes the best you can do is to start over". And that's exactly what he did.

Exactly. It's impossible on a quantum physical level AND a character level. You can't break causality anymore than you can make Steve sit by and do nothing while people suffer.
Hell, that inability is why he became Captain America in the first place. He was a skinny, sickly kid trying to dodge medical exams so he could enlist, and standing up to bullies even when it got him beat up all across Brooklyn.
Any Steve that went back to Peggy would have 1) made sure she put Zola right back in his cell. 2) sent a team to Siberia to extract Bucky before he truly became the Winter Soldier. 3) got Howard to put the Tesseract somewhere nobody would ever find or use it again. 4) probably showed up in Dallas in '63....and that's just for starters. Would that have created other problems? Sure; but you deal with them as they come.

There's that old quote “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Steve is the definition of "a good man". All through the 20th century, evil is triumphing and no way Steve does nothing out of fear of making it worse.

 

[Turtletrekker]

What would be despicable is screwing up the timeline even more, knowing Bucky turns out ok in the future. He knows Hyrda is defeated. He knows Thanos, who is a bigger deal than any of these other problems, is defeated and the people lost in the snap are back. Steve wouldn't be selfish to mess with the timeline like that.

He's not screwing up any timelines. He created new timelines simply by time traveling. The original timeline goes on its own way and the new timeline is free to go an entirely new and different direction. It's just another "What if?" world.

I mean, as far as "screwed up" timelines go, that ship has already sailed. There's no way that the 2014 timeline could ever evolve in the same way because Thanos sent his entire Army to the main timeline and disappeared. Every time they travel through time, they created a new alternate reality that is not bound to the events of the "main" reality. What a lot of people seem to miss is that Steve did not have to return the stones to the exact same place to serve the exact same purpose. He just had to return the stones to the timeline at the same time they disappeared. From there, the new reality goes in its own direction.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Also, and I ask this every time the subject comes up and nobody has an answer for it, if he spent his entire life with Peggy in the main timeline, then where did the shield come from?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The idea that Steve would 'choose' to fix or not fix the past is entirely missing the point. If he traveled to his own past, then the one (and only) basic rule of time travel the movie is clear and unambiguous about still applies. He *can't* change his own past. Therefore for him to be in his own past, he must have always been there, therefore all of his decisions were always part of his past.

Of course he would've told Peggy everything and of course the two of them would've fought injustice wherever they saw it. They just would not have succeeded in changing the specific bad things that we know definitely did happen. Because we know those things happened. They and their heroic intentions were always a part of the world that led to the outcome we know. But there's also mountains of story space left open for them to have saved tons of lives and done incredible things with their lives that we just never knew had happened.

 

[Reverend]

He wasn't always in his own past because he physically CANNOT get into it. Professor Hulk very clearly explained this. His old past is always there. No backsies. It's called a predestined paradox for a reason. Emphasis on paradox. A thing that cannot be.
Even the word "timeline" is a misnomer since it gives the impression of definitive and alternate versions running in parallel. What's really going in is that the multiverse is all there. All possible points in time, space and probability existing at once. Time is just an illusory perspective, travelling along one sequence of equally probable possibilities, that branch off and divide every time any particle interacts with any other particle, anywhere in the universe throughout all of time and space.

So less a timeline and more a timecloud. You can backtrack to a certain point (call it a space-time-probability coordinate) that you've been to before, but your very presence means that you cannot then proceed down the same sequence you did before because this version of another you wasn't there the last time. It's like listening to a song, rewinding the tape, but when you hit play the song that plays is slightly different than the first time you heard it. No matter how many times you rewind to the same point, you can never heard the exact same song twice. It'll always play out slight differently. They all still exist in the song multiverse and always have, you just can't get to them because they're now in your past.

He's not screwing up any timelines. He created new timelines simply by time traveling. The original timeline goes on its own way and the new timeline is free to go an entirely new and different direction. It's just another "What if?" world.

I mean, as far as "screwed up" timelines go, that ship has already sailed. There's no way that the 2014 timeline could ever evolve in the same way because Thanos sent his entire Army to the main timeline and disappeared. Every time they travel through time, they created a new alternate reality that is not bound to the events of the "main" reality. What a lot of people seem to miss is that Steve did not have to return the stones to the exact same place to serve the exact same purpose. He just had to return the stones to the timeline at the same time they disappeared. From there, the new reality goes in its own direction.

And there's also the timeline where Loki made off with the Tesseract in New York instead of going back to Asgard to be imprisoned; the results of which we're apparently going to see in in his new show.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Also, and I ask this every time the subject comes up and nobody has an answer for it, if he spent his entire life with Peggy in the main timeline, then where did the shield come from?

Presumably Wakanda. He has like 60 years of free space in which he can have adventures the audience doesn't know about, which is 20-30 more years than most of the other Avengers have been alive.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

He wasn't always in his own past because he physically CANNOT get into it. Professor Hulk very clearly explained this. His old past is always there. No backsies. It's called a predestined paradox for a reason. Emphasis on paradox. A thing that cannot be.

And there's also the timeline where Loki made off with the Tesseract in New York instead of going back to Asgard to be imprisoned; the results of which we're apparently going to see in in his new show.

Hulk never said that at all.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Presumably Wakanda. He has like 60 years of free space in which he can have adventures the audience doesn't know about, which is 20-30 more years than most of the other Avengers have been alive.

If it was a new shield created in Wakanda, why would Sam give it to the Captain America Museum?

 

[Turtletrekker]

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[FreezeC77]

There are def issues if you go with the "created a new timeline" idea.

MCU#1: Steve never returns to the past... At some point Thanos arrives, they time travel get the stones and defeat him. Steve travels back in time and stays with Peggy creating MCU#2 the MCU we have always watched. In this universe Steve was Peggy's husband. Whatever actions they undertook didn't change the future because they were the actual past of "our" MCU.

The old man Steve we saw at the end wasn't actually "our" Steve. He was MCU#1 Steve who created MCU#2 which we have been watching all along.

Of course this would run into a complication of what happens when MCU#2 Steve travels back to Peggy. He would need to arrive before MCU#1 Steve in order to create a new timeline where MCU#2 Steve was with Peggy. Then MCU#3 Steve would need to beat MCU#2 Steve to Peggy and so forth.

Of course that is assuming in the "new timeline" Steve doesn't radically alter events and make it so they never time travel...but then that also means the unfrozen Cap from the new timeline gets shafted by not getting his Peggy reunion.

 

[Anwar]

If it was a new shield created in Wakanda, why would Sam give it to the Captain America Museum?

Because the old one was destroyed.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Well I just found out via Jimmy Kimmel that Wyatt Russell is Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell's son and Kate Hudson's half brother. I've seen him in other roles I'd just never put two and two together until now; and now I can see the family resemblance.

 

[Samurai8472]

It would be interesting if John Walker was one of Ego's backup plan to expand. Heck. That would explain why John Walker is so strong.

 

[Anwar]

It would be interesting if John Walker was one of Ego's backup plan to expand. Heck. That would explain why John Walker is so strong.

I think they're going to have him go to the Power Broker to get powered up (which is how he got powers in the comics) and the process will augment everything about him...good and bad.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

If it was a new shield created in Wakanda, why would Sam give it to the Captain America Museum?

Why would he if it was from an alternate universe? Either way it has nothing to do physically with the events portrayed in the museum.

The symbol is the important part.