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My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey

I believe that Visitor only started talking about the assault in the last two years, which is probably why it isn't well known.
 
I recall back in the 90’s Rene Auberjonois mentioned in an interview that Nana was kidnapped during the filming of “Heart of Stone” and how worried he was about her. All she would say about the episode was how much she hated it. As Donlago says, it’s only in the last couple of years Nana has opened up about it, and she did so in a positive, healing-oriented context. I think it would have been too personal and too dark to bring up in the documentary, which had limited time. I didn’t even want to bring it up, but the knowledge of what happened really affects the way I see this episode and I find the scenes where Kira breaks down very tough to watch now.
 
“DESTINY”

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O’Brien, you in danger...

I’ve settled into a routine of watching DS9 in bed at night, but I’m usually too tired to write up my thoughts until the next morning. When I sat down just now to reflect on “Destiny”...man, I had to take a few seconds to even remember what the episode was about. Don’t get me wrong; it’s not a bad episode, but I did find it strangely unmemorable.

I do appreciate it, however, for the simple fact it’s the first instalment of what I think of as “the Emissary trilogy”, which would continue with season four’s “Accession” and season five’s “Rapture”, each of which is significantly better than the last.

I don’t think Sisko’s role as Emissary hasn’t even been mentioned, much less explored, since “In the Hands of the Prophets”, the first season finale. To me, it’s one of the series’ most interesting and unique concepts, and certainly something that sets Sisko apart from his predecessors and successors. Here, Sisko is still understandably reticent to accept his role as some kind of sacred figure in Bajoran religion—I mean, aside for narcissists, who wouldn’t be? As the episode progresses, he finds it difficult to dismiss the prophecies and even begins trying to make sense of them himself.

What’s particularly interesting is Kira’s gradual acceptance that, yes, she does see Sisko as the Emissary and not just a Starfleet officer. It’s been a while since we’ve seen much acknowledgement of Kira’s faith, which is an integral part of her character and no doubt something that has helped her heal from the wounds of the Occupation and her own bloody past. It leads to a nicely complex scene with Sisko on the Defiant, which makes you wonder how you’d feel if one of your co-workers viewed you as some kind of Messiah? Would sure make for some awkward office parties, huh?

I liked the idea of a prophecy unfolding and making the characters somewhat jitterish as more and more things seem to slot into place. Prophecy is something doubtlessly as old as the human race itself. When I was growing up people were equally fascinated and terrified by Nostradamus—I don’t know if he’s still referenced as much these days, now that we have modern-day “prophets” such as Qanon and various internet-based conspiracy theories? The thing about these kind of prophecies, however, is that they’re so vague and cryptic that it’s impossible to make sense of them unless you look back and try to piece things together in retrospect. Even then, it’s pretty much just guesswork and ten different people would likely come up with ten different interpretations. Which kind of makes most prophecy fairly useless, unless it has great specificity (and when it does, let’s face it, it invariably tends to prove false). This episode seems to confirm this. In this case, the prophecy does come true, but no one was able to correct interpret it until after the fact.

I also liked that we get to see some more nuance to the Cardassians, with two likeable scientists, Ulani and Gilora, (who actually give me the impression of being lovers—until, that is, Gilora starts getting all hot and bothered over Miles). Of course, we later get gatecrashed by an Obsidian Order operative, Dejar, although she isn’t nearly as menacing as Enabran Tain or Korinas from “Defiant”. At worst, Dejar is simply a bit snide, and her sabotage of the project doesn’t generate a whole lot of reaction other than some disapproving scowls. One of the most memorable parts of the episode are the scenes between Tracy Scoggins and Colm Meaney, whose characters seemingly rub each other up the wrong way—although, as we learn, in Cardassian culture, this actually means something quite counterintuitive. The interplay is amusing, and seem to be another step forward in helping O’Brien overcome his anti-Cardassian prejudice. Also nice to see Kira continuing to move forward in that respect, too.

Unfortunately, the plot involving the Gamma Quadrant communications relay isn’t all that interesting and, like many of the tech-related subplots on TNG over the years, suffers from an excess of technobabble and lack of drama. Even when things start going wrong and the wormhole is endangered by comet fragments, there’s precious little tension in the episode. The acting, directing and music are all adequate, but they just don’t come together to produce anything particularly gripping or engaging. This episode just sort of drifts by in a low-key manner, and none of it is bad, but it lacks impact and conviction. Put it this way, I was never anywhere near the edge of my seat.

There was definitely the potential for more drama, whether by beefing up Dejar’s role, or doing more with Vedek Yarka—perhaps having him try to sabotage the mission somehow. I don’t know. I felt the script needed a couple more passes to bring out the drama and tension. Ultimately, it’s an episode that’s more than the sum of its parts, simply because it furthers the Emissary arc and allows for some solid character development for Sisko, Kira and O’Brien. Rating: 6
 
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It seems worth noting that Scoggins would later(?) play Captain Lochley on Babylon Five. She's quite good at handling meaty material when given the opportunity, though I'm not sure I care for her more casual performances. Her discussion with Garibaldi about alcoholism was magnificent though.

I enjoy "Destiny" for the additional insights it gives us into Cardassian society. Also the communications relay will have obvious significance in later episodes. The stuff about the flexibility of prophecies is handled well enough, but I'm not sure it really introduced anything new to the dialogue.

Kira and Sisko do have a discussion about their relationship in "Starship Down" as well, though that's one subplot among several.

To backtrack slightly, regarding Visitor's assault, given the amount of special features included with the documentary I could see them having included something about it outside of the main film, but it seems she wasn't ready to talk about it yet (at least not with random viewers), which is entirely understandable. In the end, it may have informed her performance, but it is none of our business.
 
"DESTINY" is one of those episodes that is better on a rewatch after seeing the whole series, pretty much for the reasons stated above.

I always wanted to know exactly what was that last prophecy started off in the final moment of the episode. It feels like it was a foreshadowing of the Dominion War, or Sisko's last stand at the Fire Caves with Dukat.

This episode does have the noteworthy appearance of a shuttle from the Defiant, a kind that we never see before (exterior, anyway) and only once more, if memory serves me.

I agree with this being the first part of the 'Emissary Trilogy', as you call it... which oddly enough, was exactly what I called it many years ago. Maybe I read that name somewhere and took it without realizing, or it's just so easy a thing to name that everyone just does it on their own.

Tracy Scoggins... I have to say, I always had a big crush on her in anything she appeared in. Even as a Cardassian, she is gorgeous. I actually had the pleasure to meet her at DragonCon. Super nice and fun woman, I even told her about my crush growing up, from this episode to B5 (about 2 years later) to her appearances on HIGHLANDER to her guest spot on NIP/TUCK. Gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek. I was speechless. :)

I should also point out this episode may not have happened had the peace treaty from "LIFE SUPPORT" didn't happen. This is actually one of the few episodes that not only directly references it, but is a clear consequence of that treaty. Probably the only other outright example would be "INDISCRETION", when Kira and Dukat team up to find the Ravinok.

Kira makes an interesting counterargument to Sisko about how the Prophets can be seen regarding it being a 'Starfleet reason'. Since they exist outside of linear time, she makes a legitimate case. I think it was the first time I ever heard a concrete argument on a reason to follow what a deity says. I'm not spiritual and certainly not religious, but this definitely was a noteworthy episode for me because of those scenes.

Overall, I agree that it's rather middle of the road for me.
 
Regarding Bareil v Sinclair, after my last post I remembered one difference: Bareil sometimes gave off creepy vibes, for me. And I'm sure that wasn't intentional for either the writers or the actors, so I try to ignore it, but I never had that impression of Sinclair.
For a second there I wondered if I was being roped into some sort of bout with the Vedek :lol::lol::lol:
 
My opinion is that the prophets (and their prophecies) are continuously retconned throughout the series, to the point that the prophets of "What you leave Behind" have practically nothing in common with the ones of "Emissary". I must say I am not particularly fond of this aspect of the series and IMO the less it is used, the better, e.g. I didn't particularly care for the mother of pearls of deus ex-machina when the prophets just decided to make the whole dominion fleet disappear, I felt cheated, to tell you the truth. "Deus Ex-Machina" is always a little bit f a cheat, and even more so in this case.
 
Hadn’t seen this episode since it first aired. A cerebral one…focused on both Kira’s and Sisko’s inner conflicts about Bajoran faith vs science, but it could have been more compelling. I liked Dax as the voice of reason – “you can either make your own decisions, or you can let the prophecies make them for you.” I enjoyed the reversal of the stereotype—for Cardassians, engineers are almost always women .…and the humorous bit with Gilora and Miles - irritability as a sign of sexual attraction - !

Hard not to think about Nana Visitor’s horrendous ordeal during this part of the series - and why it was kept under the radar all these years. I guess the studio respected her wish for silence, privacy. It says a lot about her dedication to her craft, that she kept right on going….but sad to imagine the long-term suffering she endured, and the fact that her attackers went unidentified, unconvicted.
 
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I think it’s good that Nana was able to wait until she felt ready to talk about it on her own terms. Like I said, Rene Auberjonois mentioned it in an interview in the 90’s but didn’t go into detail, and apparently there was talk about it on usenet at the time. But it sounds like Nana just put it aside and focused on her work and family until she finally had to start healing and resolving it.
 
I agree, and it's good that you brought it up actually - I admire her even more. And thanks for sharing the link about how meditating has helped her.

You’re welcome. I have to say I’ve meditated since I was a teenager and I swear it’s the one thing that’s kept me reasonably sane over the years.
 
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“PROPHET MOTIVE”

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A charitable Zek? “InconCEIVable!!!”

I remember liking this one more when I first saw it. I admit I’ve always had a soft spot for DS9’s zany Ferengi comedies, and I usually find them a nice change of pace and something that’s quite uniquely “DS9”. “Prophet Motive” isn’t one of the strongest examples, however. The best I can say is that it’s not bad, and it is amusing on the whole. The problem is it feels overly fluffy, even for a Ferengi episode, and the overall plot feels like an exercise in pointlessness.

Wallace Shawn is, of course, an absolute hoot throughout, and steals just about every scene he’s in. Armin Shimmerman and Max Grodenchik are also in great form as the hapless brothers; with Rom quite happily embracing the new, “kinder, gentler” Nagus, and Quark disgusted to his core. The idea of rewritten Rules of Acquisition is fun, and so is the establishment of the Ferengi Benevolent Association. Much of the humour comes from Quark’s horrified reactions and his desperation to get to the bottom of this travesty (including a fantastic scene in the Infirmary). So far, so good.

The involvement of the Prophets, however, was a tad jarring for me. On the one hand, there’s something inherently funny about the Nagus attempting to negotiate with the godlike beings and exploiting the Orbs for profit. The problem is this is the first time we’ve actually encountered the Prophets since the pilot two and half years ago, and to have them reduced to pretty much the butt of a joke feels incongruous with the show’s narrative. I also struggled to fathom why they would basically lobotomise a corporeal entity simply because they weren’t too keen on him. (Although, I guess, if I had godlike powers and someone was reeeeally bugging me, maybe I’d be inclined to wipe their personality too?!)

Basically, the crux of the plot is this—the Prophets change Zek’s personality, and Quark persuades them to change it back. As plots go, it’s not a particularly strong one, and ultimately, the inevitable reset left me with a feeling of “so what?” What was the actual point? I guess the purpose was the resultant comedy, although, frankly, although amiable and frequently amusing, it certainly isn’t among Trek’s cleverer or funniest comedy outings. I read that Armin Shimmerman, Max Grodenchik and first-time director Rene Auberjonois would rehearse their scenes at the weekend prior to filming. You can tell which scenes were well-rehearsed, although I’m not sure that’s entirely a good thing. I found some of the physical comedy just a tiny bit forced and lacking in spontaneity. I recently read that Kelsey Grammar only learned his lines on Frasier immediately prior to shooting a scene, as he felt it gave greater spontaneity and freshness, and he certainly did well with that approach. Sometimes if you try too hard it with comedy it can blunt its edge. I have to say, though, I did enjoy watching Tiny Ron’s body language as Zek’s distraught manservant, Maihardu.

There’s a curious little sub-plot featuring Bashir in the running for a prestigious medical award. If there’s an actual purpose or point to this storyline I have no idea, because it just chugs along and then abruptly stops with no payoff whatsoever. It does provide a couple of humorous moments, such as O’Brien using it the distract Bashir from playing darts (hello, 24th century dartboard, welcome to the cast!), and there’s a cute moment with Odo relaying gossip from Starfleet Intelligence. But, quite why the writers even bothered I have no idea.

Overall, this one hasn’t aged as well as I thought. It’s amusing, diverting and likeable, but it’s an episode that, more than anything, is just kinda...there. I actually wonder if this episode was solely based on the wordplay of “profit” and “Prophet”. Rating: 5
 
Prophet Motive is definitely not one of those episodes I could rewatch every week for years and never get tired of, like Far Beyond the Stars, Improbable Cause, or Past Tense. Pretty good comedy, though.

Interesting about Grammar. Does sound a lot like procrastination, though.
 
Must admit, I didn’t rewatch this one – the weakest of the Ferengi episodes, as I recall. But I love reading these thoughtful analyses and responses.
I once read that the Bashir subplot was basically an in-joke about TNG not receiving an EMMY award.
It did seem out of character, entirely inappropriate, for the Prophets to radically change Zek’s personality. Somehow I want to keep the Orb stuff serious and distinct from the Ferengi parodies. But there is definitely a pun intended on prophet /profit for this episode.
Interesting about Grammar’s acting technique in “Frasier” ! My all time favorite sitcom. And he may be reprising that role (?)
 
It did seem out of character, entirely inappropriate, for the Prophets to radically change Zek’s personality.
Not to mention that it's kind of strange for beings that live out of linear time to change their minds on something.
 
This Ferengi episode has something in common with other Ferengi episodes... it introduces something that is recurring throughout the series.

The Dominion reference in "RULES OF ACQUISITION". The dartboard here. Brunt, Ishka, and Ferengi women's movement in "FAMILY BUSINESS". Rom being his own man in "BAR ASSOCIATION".

Ira Steven Behr loved to put little serious, long lasting elements in what might otherwise be straight up comedies. I always loved that about him. I wonder if he got some kind of weird thrill toying with us like that...

Funny side note, I ended up expecting Auberjonois to direct every Ferengi episode because he directed this, "FAMILY BUSINESS", and "FERENGI LOVE SONGS". Odd coincidence or some kind of design, most of the Ferengi episodes from season 3 onward were directed by STAR TREK cast members. The ones I mentioned above... Brooks did "BODY PARTS" and "THE DOGS OF WAR"... LeVar Burton did "BAR ASSOCIATION".
 
“VISIONARY

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”You can keep Keiko, Miles!” “No, you can, Miles!”

My goodness, more than any episode since the show’s early days, this one feels like it could actually have been a TNG episode—or, indeed, given the dangerously high technobabble quotient, a Voyager episode. I confess it has a somewhat “generic 90’s Trek” feel to it, although, having said that, the writers do nicely customise it to DS9’s own particular milieu.

It’s nice to see the Romulans, as arrogant as ever, appearing for only the second time in the series following the introduction and subsequent disappearance of T’Rul in “The Search”. Speaking of which, I do wonder what happened to her. Did the writers forget that her death scene only took place in the Founder’s Virtual Reality video game? Or were they pissed that Martha Hackett had since landed a recurring role on Voyager? I would have loved just an acknowledgement and maybe a hint of what happened to her.

Anyway, it’s good to get some follow-up to the agreement that saw the Romulans loan a cloaking device for the Defiant, and their “interrogation” scenes are particularly fun. Predictably, it doesn’t take much for them to get Kira riled, and they also successfully deduce that Odo’s feelings for Kira are more than just professional. In fact, one of the things this episode does well is give the whole cast something to do and everyone gets a chance to shine in the spotlight (except poor Jadzia, who, as the resident science officer, is here the reigning Queen of inane technobabble).

The time-jumping plot is reasonably well done, up to a point. I found the plot slightly reminiscent of TNG’s “Time Squared”—an episode that, despite an undeniably anticlimactic ending, boasted a wonderful atmosphere of tension, dread and foreboding. Unfortunately, that’s something sadly missing from the breezier-feeling “Visionary”. Colm Meaney is always reliable, although I get the impression he didn’t find this one of the more interesting Miles episodes. He’s right, too. It’s not particularly deep character-wise and O’Brien’s role could easily have been switched with any of the rest of the cast.

While there’s a fair bit of action, including a barroom brawl and the stunning destruction of the station, the episode still manages to feel strangely inconsequential and run of the mill. I never felt it had the necessary visceral sense of danger and tension. I have to admit, after a while O’Brien’s time jumps started to feel unintentionally funny. In the second half of the episode, each time O’Brien jumps he witnesses if not his own death then the destruction of the station and the stakes just keep getting bigger and bigger. How come he always happens to jump to a moment of mortal danger? It feels contrived and, frankly, quite silly. At times I almost felt like I was watching an episode of Red Dwarf.

Also, but of a nit, but given it had already been established in Trek lore that Romulan engines are powered by quantum singularities, why didn’t anyone deduce that the mysterious quantum singularity orbiting the station was in fact a cloaked Romulan warbird? Given that the Romulans are THERE, on the station, it’s the first thing that would’ve crossed my mind.

The climatic twist, where O’Brien actually DIES and switches places with a future version of himself should have felt MAJOR yet seemed, to me anyway, strangely inconsequential. I don’t know whether the episode had just lost me a bit by that point, or whether the execution lacked conviction, but I was left feeling just a little unsatisfied. While “Visionary” is a reasonably engaging and entertaining episode, it doesn’t quite pull the show out of the mid-season slump following the highs of “Past Tense”. Rating: 6
 
Interesting about Grammar’s acting technique in “Frasier” ! My all time favorite sitcom. And he may be reprising that role (?)

I love Frasier! Definitely one of my favourite sitcoms of all time. I rewatched the whole series over lockdown and almost rewatched it again after that!
 
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