I'd be curious to see who's actually buying those toys, comics books and who is watching those cartoons. Trekbbs for example, is full of big kids who enjoy all those.
Justice League official "Zack Snyder" cut on HBO Max
- Thread starter Ar-Pharazon
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Smallville had Clark to the crucifixion pose a few times too. In fact, he was tied to a cross in the very first episode.
The original Aliens, Jurassic Park and Ghostbusters toylines (among several others) are from a time before adult collectors were even a consideration for toy manufacturors, and even today the adult collectors market is too small to sustain a large toyline. Sure, the market for merch for adult fans and geeks has grown considerably in the last two decades, thanks to the internet and big comic conventions, but most toylines based on SF and comics properties are still aimed at children.
Cartoons even more so. There's a Jurassic World animated show aimed at younger viewers right now.
Of course not, and someone continues to push the historically ignorant lie that Batman was kiddie fare all along. As I will always cite real history, published Batman killed villains early on; he was not always the worthless aberration (mid-Golden Age to early Silver Age) that brought the character to the edge of cancellation. Further, once DC realized their readers were no longer the dwindling, quick to be shell-shocked Beaver Cleaver types who enjoyed "Zebra Batman" and "Robin blushes because Bat-Girl kissed him" stories, but older teen and adults (the same age range who read his early years comics), the creatives returned the character to his dark roots with adult, violent and occasionally horror-themed stories stating in the Frank Robbins/Irv Novick period of the late 1960s. This is easily researched history, but some love to push myths that hold as much weight as a wet cracker.
Batman and Superman were born of a period of American history where vigilante justice was more widely accepted than anything you would hear or see today. They--and characters like The Green Hornet--were written to reflect that public need in a wish fulfillment sense. Some should read Golden Age Captain America and see how he dealt with villains not in Nazi uniforms. In other words, they were not created as grinning, waving to kids, and telling them to drink good 'ol Vitamin D Milk...but adults and kids enjoyed those violent, grim stories. Obviously, the characters would be watered down, especially in the late WW2 period (and when the Golden Age bottom dropped out), but again, in less than 20 years following that, readers' demands for mature content returned Batman and Superman to a place that was not welcoming to George Reeves-esque characterizations.
Yep--and in the 1980's kids were in the movie theater seats to see Aliens, Predator, the Rambo movies---and the rest of the incredibly violent, profanity-laced movies of that period that on paper, were not market to children...until the research proved they loved such content and soon, toys and video games of those films popped up like weeds. That would not have happened if kids were so sheltered and traumatized by dark, violent content as some around here continue to claim.
I never liked Burton's Batman, either, but that was due to Burton saying (to NBC) that he did not want Batman/Wayne to be a "techno-geek" (his words) instead of a "square-jawed hero" (again, his words), as a defense for casting short, balding, nonathletic comedic actor Michael Keaton. Burton's well-known insecurities (seen in all of his films) turned Batman into something he was never meant to be. That's why the first serious casting of Batman did not occur until Kilmer (despite being in a horrible movie), followed by Bale and Affleck. The rest...YMMV.
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Totally anecdotal evidence but I have friends' kids watching the Jurassic Park cartoon, and kids I work with talking about Walking Dead. I hate a ton of Jurassic Park toys as a child, as did several of my friends.
Interestingly enough this reminds me a bit of Daredevil in the Netflix series. Completely aware that he is on the wrong side of the law but unwilling to sit back and do nothing either. Also, and this is more important to remember, is that comic books are art and reflect the times they were created in.
It i so weird to me seeing you post stuff like this... because this seems EXACTLY the type of thing @Christopher would post... YES, this is part of the history (so "technically"), but this is NOT what predominates our culture's thinking (i.e. "normal" or "average" people). For example, go through the kids clothing section, and you will see Superman and Batman logo'ed underwear as well as shirts. ANd ask anyone on the street -- would you expect a Superman movie to be seen by kids 13 and under? Most people would answer yes.
You CAN have "adult" stuff, especially with alternative media (how does the DCAU make enough money to keep producing??)... but for what is supposed to be the "primary" portrayal of especially SUPERMAN... and a TEAM of SUperheroes.... making it R worthy is ridiculous. It makes sense for Watchmen....but JUSTICE LEAGUE?
Kids under 13 can watch - and most likely have watched - every film in the DCEU.
Arguments can be made as to whether or not younger kids should watch some of those films, but that's purely an individual and subjective line of argument.
Arguments can be made as to whether or not younger kids should watch some of those films, but that's purely an individual and subjective line of argument.
Why? By that argument Burton Batman shouldn't of happened because the predominant imagery was Adam West at the time.
Now, you're getting nasty...
.. Our culture has witnessed far more than kiddie versions of the characters in question, and its quite telling that those characters began as grim, villain-killing (when necessary) characters, returned with force in the comics of the late 60s, and in the films of this century. In other words, the material which deviated from the original intent was the silly crap (Superman vs Herculean cavemen / Lois' wedding scheme # 589,720 / alien Batman / George Reeves, etc.) has been bookended by the content that reflects the aforementioned intent, and the reader interests which brought that back into focus in the late 60s-forward. Where comics are concerned, that's several generations of readers who knew what the characters were meant to be, enjoyed it, and were--under no circumstances--asking that the regular continuity titles mirror those 50s/early Silver Age interpretations, or something like The Super Friends.
The Snyder films are what defines the DC characters as adaptations in this era (a more realistic take on human reactions to superpowered characters / events, and how superheroes might act), which are in turn, were possible due to the serious, more grounded approach of the Nolan films, not the Salkinds (we saw the less-than-enthusiastic reaction to would-be Salkind sequel Superman Returns), the worst of the Burton/Schumacher Bat-films, etc.
...which does not mean the handling of the character is exclusively the domain of the kiddie market, and it also does not mean that being a pre-teen means they're of a sheltered and/or kiddie mindset only liking light material. Their comics are certainly not viewed that way.
Again, this assumes Superman and the Justice League are kiddie properties, when they are not. Further, despite the first few years of the Justice League of America comic (1960-87) being lighter, it would not be long before the title was as serious as any group comic could be. They are not live action versions of The Super Friends.
Exactly. Or perhaps the classic Star Trek should not have gone to series because the networks--and the public had a false perception that all televised sci-fi was of the Lost in Space variety.
In the next article we'll find out that Whedon is actually the AntiChist.
Messing Up Age of Ultron Helped Joss Whedon Mess Up Justice League
Messing Up Age of Ultron Helped Joss Whedon Mess Up Justice League
"Beta" Edition?
Beta is a synonym for Cuck.
Beta is a synonym for Cuck.
Now people are just jumping on a bandwagon to beat a dead horse.
Ran across this long and thoughtful video essay on women in Snyder's movies:
I've always said that the very best elements of MoS and BvS, for me, are the female characters, particularly Amy Adams's standard-setting portrayal of Lois Lane. (The excellent analysis of Lois starts at about 5:45 in this video.) Adams will be my primary reason for watching Zack Snyder's Justice League, and the aspect of the film I expect to enjoy most.
I've always said that the very best elements of MoS and BvS, for me, are the female characters, particularly Amy Adams's standard-setting portrayal of Lois Lane. (The excellent analysis of Lois starts at about 5:45 in this video.) Adams will be my primary reason for watching Zack Snyder's Justice League, and the aspect of the film I expect to enjoy most.
I agree. I would like besides a MOS 2 movie(not directed by Snyder) a Lois lane movie with Amy Adams
Why do so many often assume "family-friendly" and "all ages" must mean "dumbed down kiddie"?
I would agree that DC Comics since circa 2005 have increasingly rejected the idea of retaining a child audience and has been doing more and more stuff that's just not appropriate for kids to see, full stop.
I would also note that DC Comics sales have been plummeting and are now only a fraction of what they once were when they still actively cultivated and retained child audiences.
These two facts are not unrelated.
The Burton Batman were for kids, too. Darker, and also for adults, but also for kids.
This. This this this.
When I was in my teens, a friend of mine and I cooked up a scenario for a "Batman" movie. In it, the Joker murdered Batman's love, Silver St. Cloud, and in response, Batman went berserk and beat the Joker to death with his bare hands. I remember we envisioned a shot where Batman's fists would be silhouetted on the screen, the Joker's blood dripping copiously from the fins on his gloves.
My dumbass edgelord adolescent self would have loved Zack Snyder.
Mostly, folks like that have something to prove to themselves, about how they're all growed up and have left "childish" pleasures behind.
Meanwhile, the rest of us embrace the wisdom imparted by Star Trek's "Shore Leave": "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play."
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