Justice League official "Zack Snyder" cut on HBO Max

[Sci]

No, that's not it.

I haven't seen any Fast and Furious films since the first one back in 2001, but that is definitely one of the things the original Pirates trilogy was about. Pirates in those films are framed as scallywags, but they're also framed as people who deserve respect for defying oppressive social structures in "legitimate" society. The East India Company in particular is depicted as "lawful evil" and opposition to them is framed as heroic.

 

[Sci]

Side-note: If we're going to talk about moral rot in society as expressed through the kinds of movies it enjoys... Honestly Michael Bay would be a more probable example for me. His films are racist, classist, misogynistic, militaristic, glorify state violence, and are deeply nihilistic. The popularity of his films bothers me way more than the popularity of something like Joker.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I mean, as far as the films go, the idea of there being a multiverse within the continuity of the DCEU series was not "established" as of 2017.

4 years now!

I would say that a hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars, promoted-and-released-to-millions blockbuster movie has a far, far, far more significant impact on audiences, particularly on children, than a random episode of one TV show, or a one-shot alternate continuity comic book that only a small percentage of the motion picture audience reads.

Children should not be watching the R-rated Snyder movies. It's irrelevant to them.

 

[Sci]

Children should not be watching the R-rated Snyder movies. It's irrelevant to them.

You can't spend 70 years putting Superman and Batman on schoolchildren's lunchboxes and then turn around and say, "Oh, no, this multi-million dollar blockbuster entitled Batman v. Superman isn't for children, only Mature Adults."

 

[F. King Daniel]

You can't spend 70 years putting Superman and Batman on schoolchildren's lunchboxes and then turn around and say, "Oh, no, this multi-million dollar blockbuster entitled Batman v. Superman isn't for children, only Mature Adults."

Then it's the fault of irresponsible parents, not Snyder. Ratings are there especially to protect children. Justice League is rated R. Not for children. If Children want Superman, they can watch Superman and Lois, Supergirl or some old Smallville.

 

[Sci]

Then it's the fault of irresponsible parents, not Snyder. Ratings are there especially to protect children. Justice League is rated R. Not for children. If Children want Superman, they can watch Superman and Lois, Supergirl or some old Smallville.

No, it's Snyder's fault too. He knows full well that there will be millions of children exposed to his Superman films no matter what the rating is because it's Superman and there are parents who will either not care, not notice, or not believe such a rating. He could achieve all his same artistic goals if he made the same movie about a Superman pastiche instead of Superman proper, but he also knows he wouldn't make as much money, so he tries to have his cake and eat it too: He makes a movie that is inappropriate for children, knowing that children will see it and the film will achieve greater profits for it. (This is also Warner Bros.'s fault, to be clear.)

 

[F. King Daniel]

No, it's Snyder's fault too. He knows full well that there will be millions of children exposed to his Superman films no matter what the rating is because it's Superman and there are parents who will either not care, not notice, or not believe such a rating. He could achieve all his same artistic goals if he made the same movie about a Superman pastiche instead of Superman proper, but he also knows he wouldn't make as much money, so he tries to have his cake and eat it too: He makes a movie that is inappropriate for children, knowing that children will see it and the film will achieve greater profits for it. (This is also Warner Bros.'s fault, to be clear.)

No, it's still the lazy uncaring parents fault. By your logic there should be no adult content at all due to the existence of such useless parents who don't care and because children might be able to access it.

 

[Sci]

No, it's still the lazy uncaring parents fault. By your logic there should be no adult content at all due to the existence of such useless parents who don't care and because children might be able to access it.

It is profoundly unrealistic to compare films clearly aimed and marketed at adults to a film based upon a property that had been a children's character for 70 years and was frankly still being marketed to children.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It is profoundly unrealistic to compare films clearly aimed and marketed at adults to a film based upon a property that had been a children's character for 70 years and was frankly still being marketed to children.

That's an issue with the marketing people. If a film has an adult rating and people still let their children see it, it's the parent's fault and they are the ones who need educating. Otherwise we're deprived of adult interpretations of these characters and I think that's a huge mistake.

And as said, there are tons and tons and tons of Superman content out there suitable for children. They won't run out until they're old enough to see the grown up stuff.

 

[fireproof78]

I haven't seen any Fast and Furious films since the first one back in 2001, but that is definitely one of the things the original Pirates trilogy was about. Pirates in those films are framed as scallywags, but they're also framed as people who deserve respect for defying oppressive social structures in "legitimate" society. The East India Company in particular is depicted as "lawful evil" and opposition to them is framed as heroic.

Sorry, should have included a winky face since when I respond like that it is meant completely as sarcasm.

To me, all the Pirates of the Caribbean protagonists want is freedom. Freedom to do whatever they want, and be free of the consequences. The East India Trading Company just comes across as a monopolistic controlling force. I suppose it would be lawful evil in that sense but it definitely is a very thin antagonist beyond that.

That's an issue with the marketing people. If a film has an adult rating and people still let their children see it, it's the parent's fault and they are the ones who need educating. Otherwise we're deprived of adult interpretations of these characters and I think that's a huge mistake.

Marketing in general is an odd duck. I see toys marketed for the Walking Dead, as well as Aliens. Neither are properties I want my kids any where near, especially when I'm having 20 minute conversations with a child client about preparing for a zombie apocalypse.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You can't spend 70 years putting Superman and Batman on schoolchildren's lunchboxes and then turn around and say, "Oh, no, this multi-million dollar blockbuster entitled Batman v. Superman isn't for children, only Mature Adults."

You ignore history. In the early published years of both characters, they killed--a historical fact that cannot be spun to create a false narrative (as a couple of members try--and fail--to sell). Moreover, comics were not only read by children, but by adults as well, including servicemen during World War Two were among the active readers of comics (one of my grandfathers was in that group), no matter how merchandise was marketed. Further, DC changed both Batman and Superman in the late 1960s to lose the idiocy of the mid-Golden - Silver Age trappings and tell serious stories, in large part because the ages of the average comic reader was increasingly older as the Silver Age progressed, so kiddie fare was not tolerated by readers in high school and college. The point being that the characters in question were not consistently aimed at children, therefore adaptations featuring darker stories was not something unexpected--if anyone actually read & understood the steady evolution of the characters over the past 50+ years.

 

[DigificWriter]

Superman was created by two Jewish men who made him a Moses/Christ-like figure, but the DCEU is the first time the character has been openly and overtly depicted as being Messianic.

 

[fireproof78]

I felt that Jor-El's speech to Kal-El in Superman felt very Messianic.

Also, the whole El surname implies divinity.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ The key words in my comment were "openly" and "overtly".

 

[fireproof78]

^ The key words in my comment were "openly" and "overtly".

Sorry, to my mind both of those felt overt.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sorry, to my mind both of those felt overt.

Ok.

I think where I'm seeing a difference is that the DCEU makes Superman being a Messianic figure an essential element of the stories being told about him, which wasn't the case previously.

 

[theenglish]

You can't spend 70 years putting Superman and Batman on schoolchildren's lunchboxes and then turn around and say, "Oh, no, this multi-million dollar blockbuster entitled Batman v. Superman isn't for children, only Mature Adults."

And merch directed at children for this particular movie--how many adults are taking those lunch boxes to work?

 

[fireproof78]

Ok.

I think where I'm seeing a difference is that the DCEU makes Superman being a Messianic figure an essential element of the stories being told about him, which wasn't the case previously.

That's a fair point.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

And merch directed at children for this particular movie--how many adults are taking those lunch boxes to work?

There were Justice themed Dorito bags at the corner store. I'd always grab Wonder Woman.

 

[Samurai8472]

It's fixed now, but a glitch happened on HBO Max today where people clicking on Tom & Jerry got the SnyderCut instead.

Whoops!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ne...ly-leaks-on-hbo-max/ar-BB1enUEN?ocid=msedgdhp