Every story needs a villain, it seems.
NFL 2020 Season: We're gonna bite a kneecap off
- Thread starter 137th Gebirg
- Start date
There were 2 in the 2nd Qtr. One where the Chief player kind if nipped the Buc's feet with his own as they ran too close to one another, both fell, flag thrown for PI (earlier I miss-said this was Roughness.) It's questionable if that ball was catchable.
The second was the ball hit the end zone wall just as the Buc was entering the EZ, tackle, flag, PI. That ball was clearly uncatchable. That one was a little more clear.
Then the were other calls on the Chiefs for things the Bucs were doing and not being called in. Chiefs called for Taunting which, yeah, they were but in the same incident Brady actually chased down the Chief to retaliate, I'd say that's taunting too. An Offsides call was a little extreme, and there were a couple others that just felt like stretching for things and more that Refs were afraid their flags had COVID.
But those late 2 PI calls were just out of line.
RIP to Marty.
I have always hated the Browns but Marty earned my respect, and RIP in the Dog Pound Above, Marty.
So, if we can all agree that the officiating (which wasn't nearly as out-of-line as some are making it out to be) would not have impacted the outcome if certain flags had not been thrown...why are we spending so much energy on it?
I don't consider myself a SME on pretty much ANY topic, but football would be the one I'd pick if I had to. I played in college as a strong safety and I coached at various levels for over 25 years (yes, I'm shamelessly dropping credentials here). Each penalty I saw called, I understood why it was called. The only one that I didn't see clearly enough was the neutral zone infraction by the Chief's punt return team, as I don't believe they showed a shot down the line of scrimmage. Many of the holding penalties the Chiefs were called for had jersey separating from body or had an arm wrapped around a guy's waist or neck. That's holding on either side of the ball. Now, you can argue until you're blue in the face as to "whether or not it should have been called," but those are penalties by the way the rules are written.
Things that drive me crazy about this past SuperBowl:
1. The narrative that the NFL was somehow hoping Tom Brady would win. This is absolutely ridiculous, particularly when you take into account that the league and Brady have been on shaky terms for some time now, AND the league would be much better served ushering in the next generation of NFL poster boy, who is clearly Mahomes. It's nonsense. If the leage was fixed in any way, Mahomes and the Chiefs would have won. That's what would serve the epic story better, and set the NFL up for the next decade.
2. Anybody who still believes Brady isn't the greatest football player of all time. Give me a fucking break. Just because he's broken many fans' hearts more times than they can count...there's no denying it at this point. He was the greatest 7 years ago....let alone what he's accomplished since. And no, being "the greatest" isn't about speed, agility, arm strength, or even personal stats. It's about longevity and championships...but most importantly, it's about leadership. He immediately raises the quality of any team he is on through his leadership and locker room ability. His work ethic and understanding of how to get a bunch of egos and overpaid jackasses to align around a single focus is considerably underestimated. It's an X factor that no other player in history has ever had, and likely will never be seen again.
3. People who Create Excuses for the Chiefs Loss. See also: "The officials." Stop. The Buccaneers completely outplayed and outcoached (as much as it pains me to say, because I like Andy Reid and I can't stand Bruce Ariens) the Chiefs in every facet of the game, except MAYBE the kicking game. The Bucs offensive line mauled the Chiefs defensive front in the run game and did a very good job protecting Brady. The Bucs defensive line and LB units generated relentless pressure all night while still being able to play crazy coverage (and yes, I know that two pro bowl offensive tackles were out, but again- not an excuse. Part of NFL football is about staying healthy as a team. It's football...and that's not an excuse). The Bucs had a simple defensive game plan to take away / limit Hill in the big plays and use ILB David to limit Kelce, and it worked perfectly. Offensively, the Bucs gameplan was also superior. In many ways, it was a "learned" plan from when the Patriots lost to the Giants in the 2007 superbowl because they refused to respect NY's ability to pass rush. The Bucs, knowing that the Chiefs would likely try to employ the same plan (Spagnulo was the DC), threw screens and ran downhill right at the defense, knowing this would force less called pressure packages. Key players on the Chiefs also did not play well. Kelce had some key catches, but dropped critical ones. Edwards-Helaire didn't run with conviction.
I like Mahomes a lot, and I think he's the best skilled QB in the game today (Russell Wilson, Jeff Allen and Aaron Rodgers also pretty amazing this year), but he had a rough game. Yes, he was scrambling for his life a lot (500 yards), but he also looked scared and frazzled, which I think is a position he's not used to being in, and it really showed. I think he laid his heart on the line, but ultimately he didn't play well on the stage where it matters most. A lot of media and fans have been very early to anoint him the "Baby GOAT"...and I still think he has a long LONG way to go. I think he is an amazing athlete and an incredible human being, but his longevity and mental toughness down the stretch will tell the tale. If KC can't find a way to pay him, keep him surrounded with great weapons, and PROTECT the kid...he'll get banged up way too early because of his elusive / improvisational style, and he won't be at peak for long enough to achieve greatness.
I don't consider myself a SME on pretty much ANY topic, but football would be the one I'd pick if I had to. I played in college as a strong safety and I coached at various levels for over 25 years (yes, I'm shamelessly dropping credentials here). Each penalty I saw called, I understood why it was called. The only one that I didn't see clearly enough was the neutral zone infraction by the Chief's punt return team, as I don't believe they showed a shot down the line of scrimmage. Many of the holding penalties the Chiefs were called for had jersey separating from body or had an arm wrapped around a guy's waist or neck. That's holding on either side of the ball. Now, you can argue until you're blue in the face as to "whether or not it should have been called," but those are penalties by the way the rules are written.
Things that drive me crazy about this past SuperBowl:
1. The narrative that the NFL was somehow hoping Tom Brady would win. This is absolutely ridiculous, particularly when you take into account that the league and Brady have been on shaky terms for some time now, AND the league would be much better served ushering in the next generation of NFL poster boy, who is clearly Mahomes. It's nonsense. If the leage was fixed in any way, Mahomes and the Chiefs would have won. That's what would serve the epic story better, and set the NFL up for the next decade.
2. Anybody who still believes Brady isn't the greatest football player of all time. Give me a fucking break. Just because he's broken many fans' hearts more times than they can count...there's no denying it at this point. He was the greatest 7 years ago....let alone what he's accomplished since. And no, being "the greatest" isn't about speed, agility, arm strength, or even personal stats. It's about longevity and championships...but most importantly, it's about leadership. He immediately raises the quality of any team he is on through his leadership and locker room ability. His work ethic and understanding of how to get a bunch of egos and overpaid jackasses to align around a single focus is considerably underestimated. It's an X factor that no other player in history has ever had, and likely will never be seen again.
3. People who Create Excuses for the Chiefs Loss. See also: "The officials." Stop. The Buccaneers completely outplayed and outcoached (as much as it pains me to say, because I like Andy Reid and I can't stand Bruce Ariens) the Chiefs in every facet of the game, except MAYBE the kicking game. The Bucs offensive line mauled the Chiefs defensive front in the run game and did a very good job protecting Brady. The Bucs defensive line and LB units generated relentless pressure all night while still being able to play crazy coverage (and yes, I know that two pro bowl offensive tackles were out, but again- not an excuse. Part of NFL football is about staying healthy as a team. It's football...and that's not an excuse). The Bucs had a simple defensive game plan to take away / limit Hill in the big plays and use ILB David to limit Kelce, and it worked perfectly. Offensively, the Bucs gameplan was also superior. In many ways, it was a "learned" plan from when the Patriots lost to the Giants in the 2007 superbowl because they refused to respect NY's ability to pass rush. The Bucs, knowing that the Chiefs would likely try to employ the same plan (Spagnulo was the DC), threw screens and ran downhill right at the defense, knowing this would force less called pressure packages. Key players on the Chiefs also did not play well. Kelce had some key catches, but dropped critical ones. Edwards-Helaire didn't run with conviction.
I like Mahomes a lot, and I think he's the best skilled QB in the game today (Russell Wilson, Jeff Allen and Aaron Rodgers also pretty amazing this year), but he had a rough game. Yes, he was scrambling for his life a lot (500 yards), but he also looked scared and frazzled, which I think is a position he's not used to being in, and it really showed. I think he laid his heart on the line, but ultimately he didn't play well on the stage where it matters most. A lot of media and fans have been very early to anoint him the "Baby GOAT"...and I still think he has a long LONG way to go. I think he is an amazing athlete and an incredible human being, but his longevity and mental toughness down the stretch will tell the tale. If KC can't find a way to pay him, keep him surrounded with great weapons, and PROTECT the kid...he'll get banged up way too early because of his elusive / improvisational style, and he won't be at peak for long enough to achieve greatness.
One of my all-time favorite coaches. A great combination of toughness and caring. I loved his style...77 is way too young.
The NFL Network special on him (A Football Life- Marty Schottenheimer) was really great.
Greatest current player? Sure. Greatest of all time? The QB position he plays now is so much different than the position Bradshaw or Montana or a ton of other guys have played in the past. Receivers are free to run all over the field without fear of getting smoked, Brady himself has no real fear of getting hit.
It is just a different game now.
Especially with the narrative of the Chiefs being one of only a couple of teams to go Back to Back Super Bowl Championships, as well as the odds favoring the Chiefs.
It is a very different game, and I would never argue that certain rule changes don’t benefit the offense, and the QB position in particular. Fully agreed
However, consider the flip side of that coin is that defensive ends and defensive tackles from the 1980’s and 1970’s didn’t have the freakish speed, strength and explosiveness you see now. There are guys who are pass rushers in the league now who are far more athletic and quick than the top RBs from those eras, and they weigh 285 lbs of muscle, and they squat 500 lbs. Also, Bradshaw and Montana (both of whom I love) were not routinely dropping back 30-50 times per game and throwing, as the run game in those eras was far more emphasized than it is now. The pass game was also far less evolved and complex back then, as were defensive schemes and coverages, making the reads and adjustments far simpler. There are high school offenses now that are more complex than the passing offense Bradshaw ran, for example.
So I don’t necessarily buy into the QB having an easier life in this era. In the 80’s a QB wasn’t being asked to do the amount of things these guys today are doing. So, while the rules restricting physical play against the QB have benefited guys who play the position, the evolution of defensive players physically as well as the mental requirements and pure speed of the game are substantially heavier.
Also: Free Agency and Salary Caps. Bradshaw and Montana didn't have to deal with either of those. Brady's lost enough team mates to those two items to field a HOF (or at least Hall of Very Good) roster. How's Montana look if Jerry Rice's contract came up and he went elsewhere or became a salary cap casualty? The entire system is designed to level the playing field and keep everyone towards the middle. Brady (and Belichick) did all this in a system designed explicitly to prevent it.
I don't particularly like brady, on a personal level... I take joy at rowing down a river of his tears when he loses.. (Damn what a sore loser)
However, Though I do acknowledge that he is one of if not the best QB ever. And Sunday was the first time I was rooting for him.. (Felt dam weird) as I'm a Tb fan.
However, Though I do acknowledge that he is one of if not the best QB ever. And Sunday was the first time I was rooting for him.. (Felt dam weird) as I'm a Tb fan.
Somewhere... Sam Wyche is smiling.
TAMPA — Shortly after his first practice with the Bucs, Sam Wyche was asked how quarterback Vinny Testaverde had fared directing his hurry-up offense.
“Well, he didn’t run into the goal post or anything,’’ Wyche deadpanned. “So far, so good.’’
https://www.tampabay.com/sports/buc...e-right-coach-at-the-wrong-time-for-the-bucs/
That's when I wasn't picked up by TB
You are right to a degree that offenses are more complex, at the same time, players like Bradshaw actually called their own plays. As far as DE's and DT's being stronger and faster, pretty much everyone is stronger and faster, including offensive linemen. QB's prior to the 21st century got hit more in a game than a lot of QB's get hit in a season now.
Brady deserves his props as the greatest player of his generation. Greatest of all time? Hard to say that when the tools of defense over the last twenty years have pretty much been neutered thanks to the Fantasy Football/Draft Kings crowd who only value points and nothing else about football.
Football, unlike baseball, is much harder to compare players of one generation to another, because the rules have constantly been in flux for much of its existence.
Agree completely with your statement about Fantasy Football. I hate it and have never played a single season. Never will, either.
They may have called their own plays at times back in the day, but the stress of calling a singular play in a huddle is much less than what guys like Brady and Manning did/do, which is almost constant audibling and checking off plays at he line based on the game plan, formation, personnel grouping, pre snap secondary alignments, etc.
The time commit is much greater now as well, with endless hours of film analysis and off season work. Bradshaw and Montana were drinking beers and chewing dip while Brady and guys of this era are working out, watching film, and meeting with coordinators about a new route package against a particular blitz (for example).
I also agree that it’s hard to say if someone is the greatest of all time in football. Despite that difficulty, I’m still saying it! I think even with those differences, the longevity and number of Super Bowl appearances (and wins) supersedes all else, as well as what I mentioned about his unmatched leadership characteristics.
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That's when I wasn't picked up by TB
It was like coming *this close to your dreams, and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in the crowd.
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They at least let me keep the concussion. That was nice of them.It was like coming *this close to your dreams, and then watching the brush past you like a stranger in the crowd.