Yeah, agree on both points. There was a time early in season 1 when I thought anyone, maybe even Burnham, could die (and stay dead). Now, not so much.
Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?
- Thread starter Ometiklan
- Start date
Yeah, agree on both points. There was a time early in season 1 when I thought anyone, maybe even Burnham, could die (and stay dead). Now, not so much.
No, no...not in any way did I think that's what you meant. I was just using your comment to spring-board an admittedly off-topic / semi-related observation. No worries at all....and certainly no apology needed!!
Season 1 didn't fall apart for me until Lorca's ridiculously uncomplicated heel turn in the third-to-the last episode.
I still wonder what the hell they thought they were doing there. I mean, making Lorca into an antagonist was fine. But how they thought it made sense to turn a nuanced portrayal into nothing more than mustache-twirl??? Maybe it was the same "subverting expectations" disease that latter-day Game of Thrones got. Good writing is not "twists." Good writing is foreshadowed and slowly builds towards a conclusion which logically follows what we already know about the characters.
I don't know this for sure, but I've always strongly assumed based on things I heard and read that Jason Isaacs agreed to play the role under certain agreed-upon restrictions that sort of backed the production team into a corner with how they developed and (permanently) wrapped-up the character.
My preferred wrap-up for Lorca would be that he was positively impacted by his time in the PU, much as the crew was negatively affected by his captaincy. He may still have been a fascist, but he came to understand that the lives of non-Terrans could be of service to the Empire as more than mere slaves. He's not good - a very dark shade of grey - but still a trade up from the status quo. It could help to explain why less than a generation later, Mirror Spock was openly serving on the ISS Enterprise.
Then they could still layer on top of this that Lorca opposed them for other reasons if they wanted. Maybe he's still obsessed with Michael and wants her to stay behind. Maybe it appears he plans to invade the Prime Universe once he consolidates back home. But it would make it a harder choice to decide between Lorca and Georgiou, and add some level of pathos to his demise.
100% agree. In fact, that is where I thought they were taking it for a little while. It was disappointing that ultimately he was just an irredeemable ass. It reminds me of how disappointed I was with how Krall's story ended in Star Trek Beyond. Same issue.
Lorca was still one of my favorite characters in all of Trek. I wish they were able to do more with him. He made S1 so frigging interesting.
This was always the impression I got from him anyway.
Lorca should've had the same epiphany Georgiou had at the end of Terra Firma this season: he's done it, he's finally back home... and he realizes he doesn't belong there anymore. I could even envision a redemption ending for him where he sacrifices himself in a way that would allow Discovery to go home. I was holding on to hope for so long that our universe had rubbed off on him on some way that I was quite disappointed at what he turned out to be. He was still entertaining as a card-carrying villain, but it certainly was a letdown.
I agree they didn't need to make him so "villany" at the end but overall I really liked what they did with Lorca in S1. I thought they did a good job laying the groundwork from the beginning of the season and building up to it.
Speaking of Lorca, I just remembered my biggest gripe about the S3 mirror universe two partner, no Lorca cameo! The way they kept name dropping him I was so confident and excited he was going to appear on screen, and then he didn't. Huge huge huge letdown.
Honestly, as much as I love a good redemption story, Lorca was too myopic. He was consumed with victory, against the Klingons in the short term, and Georgiou in the long term.
While it would have been fun I don't think it was necessary and the outcry would have been great because it's like "We want more Lorca than just one or two parts!" I think knowing that he was out there, in the background, continuing his manipulations, adds more to his gravitas as a character than an appearance.
That's me though. I love how watching "Terra Firma" and getting a better understanding of what Lorca was doing and why he fixated on Prime Burnham. It was really interesting.
All I can tell you is I had some serious Lorca blue balls at the end. But, while it was my biggest gripe, it didn't ruin the episode for me.
That sounds unfortunate.
It was, I got over it though.
After three seasons, the pattern is pretty clear: Start a story in a season, finish it in the same season. If this is the approach they're taking, one thing I wish is that the Disco Seasons had the same length as Old Trek. Lorca was killed off too quick. Osyraa was also killed off too quick. Control-Leland wasn't. He's the only one I didn't miss when they got rid of him.
But 26-episode seasons aren't going to happen, so start-and-finish in 10 or 13 is the "new normal". I think this could be made up for with longer episodes. If all of them went 60 minutes, or close to 60, there's a lot more fleshing out that can be done. Those extra 10 minutes per episode would add up to over two more hours every season. It actually makes a difference.
But 26-episode seasons aren't going to happen, so start-and-finish in 10 or 13 is the "new normal". I think this could be made up for with longer episodes. If all of them went 60 minutes, or close to 60, there's a lot more fleshing out that can be done. Those extra 10 minutes per episode would add up to over two more hours every season. It actually makes a difference.
Totally agree, the multiple season long plots doesn't seem combatable with a 13 episode season. It's even worse in S3 because of a mandatory 2 episode detour in the mirror universe to setup the Section 31 show.
Yes! I've been saying the same thing. The 2-3 ep arc format was outstanding and was only done consistently in S4 of Enterprise (in other series maybe once a season). I don't understand why it's not used more.
Honestly, after watching 3 seasons I think that Discovery still suffers from the Star Trek box. They have a lot of ideas designed for that 26 episode format for full exploration of the ideas presented in the show. The Mirror Universe could easily have been explored in a full 13 episodes. Same with the Red Angel and Control.
I think that Discovery's writers really need to figure out how to stick with expanding the ideas already presented. Season 4 has the potential to explore a larger theme, the reconnection of the Federation, while using smaller stories.
Conversely, maybe some people like Expanse and don't like Discovery, and maybe some people get rather defensive whenever a show they like gets criticized...
I've enjoyed season 3 of Discovery (despite some issues), but not seasons 1 and 2 (despite Pike, Spock & Number One all being cast very well). I liked Lower Decks and Short Treks, but not Picard. I'd like to be able to actually talk about the issues I've had with current Trek shows without being lumped in with all the toxic fans.
There's a lot here that I don't have time for (which is why I've been posting less), but the short of it is: I think the key difference between me and people who don't like the show as much is I think "It would be nice..." whereas they think "We have to have" or "We need to have". What I see is enough that it works for me. If this were a movie, you'd get one scene to establish character beats, before moving on to the next thing, you don't spend forever and ever on it. DSC, also, doesn't spend forever and ever on it.
My thoughts are more in the vain of, "I really like that character, I wish we could see more of him/her/them!" A longer run-time would provide that.
The other thing (I guess this isn't so short) is that before 2020, DSC was the only game in town. So there was probably more pressure on DSC to be all things to all people and have as many elements as it did. Now, there are other series for those elements to appear in. "Where are the Borg?! Mock Outrage!" See Picard. "Where are the Klingons?!" See the first two seasons. "Why can't we have normal exploring?!" See Strange New Worlds.
Discovery can focus on the discovery of each season and just use whatever it needs to tell the story. What those discoveries were for each season goes into a whole other post in a whole other thread. So I'll have to cut it off here.
Last edited:
Similar threads
