Spoilers Things that grind my gears about S3

[Lord Garth]

I do miss the board meetings

I'd love a nice conference of the senior staff around a table.

Work for public access TV. Before the Quarantine -- and everything went the way of Zoom -- I used to record Local Government Meetings (and will be again after all of this is over). Which sounds more impressive than actually it is when you phrase it like that. It's just the various boards and committees discussing, debating, and voting on proposals for the town. And people in the audience raising issues. Usually they last up to three or four hours.

 

[fireproof78]

Work for public access TV. Before the Quarantine -- and everything went the way of Zoom -- I used to record Local Government Meetings (and will be again after all of this is over). Which sounds more impressive than actually it is when you phrase it like that. It's just the various boards and committees discussing, debating, and voting on proposals for the town. And people in the audience raising issues. Usually they last up to three or four hours.

Sounds like Star Trek, amiright?

 

[Nerys Myk]

That sounds a lot like Gene Roddenberry's Vision.

Vision 2.0

 

[jackoverfull]

Obviously, it should be fixed with a simple switch.

No, but a person from 1666 wouldn’t think I can send you a message virtually instantaneously by moving a thumb either. It’s more complex than that, but he wouldn’t see it.

That's TOS, and a TOS movie. These rules and indeed "Gene's Vision" didn't start until TNG. Indeed, my comment about how the writers had to follow these rules to earn their paycheck and to deviate was lazy writing was an actual thing in the TNG Writer's Room.

Riker senior? Bruce Maddox? Sirna Kolrami? Just a couple of jerks from TNG...

Can’t think of PTSD in early TNG, but there aren’t many episodes to chose from if that’s all that you want to focus on.

 

[Belz...]

No, just varied types. Especially since they've gone with season long arcs rather than episodic. There are only so many times I can watch groups of 13 episodes comprising the same story.

Who said anything about it being the same story?

 

[fireproof78]

No, but a person from 1666 wouldn’t think I can send you a message virtually instantaneously by moving a thumb either. It’s more complex than that, but he wouldn’t see it.

So it should be beyond the audience's understanding?

 

[jackoverfull]

So it should be beyond the audience's understanding?

i seem to understand just fine: they found treatments to cure most of mental illnesses, just like they found a way to cure most cancer forms, or a way to teleport people or go faster then life.

If you are looking for detailed explanations of fictional technologies you’ll be let down by most SF.

 

[fireproof78]

i seem to understand just fine: they found treatments to cure most of mental illnesses, just like they found a way to cure most cancer forms, or a way to teleport people or go faster then life.

If you are looking for detailed explanations of fictional technologies you’ll be let down by most SF.

I will just leave this aside. Suffice to say that the idea of a cure to mental illness troubles me and the idea of a quick fix being presented in modern fiction is not an idea that I can get behind.

ETA: I should say that some things may be possible to have a similar healing like cancer. Others though are not going to be that quick fix. It smacks of the worst aspects of pop psychology from the 90s of pop and pill and depression is gone! It sadly creates unrealistic expectations of modern day psychotherapy.

 

[jackoverfull]

I will just leave this aside. Suffice to say that the idea of a cure to mental illness troubles me and the idea of a quick fix being presented in modern fiction is not an idea that I can get behind.

ETA: I should say that some things may be possible to have a similar healing like cancer. Others though are not going to be that quick fix. It smacks of the worst aspects of pop psychology from the 90s of pop and pill and depression is gone!

I can totally see why it can seem troubling, on the other hand it is presented as something happening centuries from now and still imperfect, so I wouldn't define it as being simple.

We only see the chair with the revolving light, but who knows what kind of complex analysis goes on in the machinery and what it actually performs. As much as we know it has a sort of artificial intelligence builtin and, within a set of parameters, it brings the patient to the cure they need, with nothing "standard" in it beside reclining in a chair.

If anything, what bothers me in that episode the most is that the penal colony/hospital is in such a depressing place, with no chance for the patients to breath real air or see a proper sun on their skin. The penal colony seen in Caretaker sits much better with me in this aspect.

Or that there seem to be no staff apart the head of the colony, also. Did Garth kill everyone else or what?

It sadly creates unrealistic expectations of modern day psychotherapy.

Well, I guess that a warp drive creates unrealistic expectations of modern day space travel…Most of SF works set in space do that one way or the other, actually.

 

[fireproof78]

I can totally see why it can seem troubling, on the other hand it is presented as something happening centuries from now and still imperfect, so I wouldn't define it as being simple.

We only see the chair with the revolving light, but who knows what kind of complex analysis goes on in the machinery and what it actually performs. As much as we know it has a sort of artificial intelligence builtin and, within a set of parameters, it brings the patient to the cure they need, with nothing "standard" in it beside reclining in a chair.

Well, unfortunately, with both episodes with such colonies in TOS, we see that the supposed advance treatment is not as successful as claimed. So my skepticism grows, especially since by TNG era they have gone from a reclining chair and spinning lights to a talk therapist.

Well, I guess that a warp drive creates unrealistic expectations of modern day space travel…Most of SF works set in space do that one way or the other, actually.

It does, yes. And I'll admit a bias because one directly impacts my work while the other just makes me sad that space travel isn't like what I grew up watching

 

[jackoverfull]

Well, unfortunately, with both episodes with such colonies in TOS, we see that the supposed advance treatment is not as successful as claimed.

Garth is “cured” once he undergoes the therapy: the machine had reached the colony but he had managed to escape before they used it on him.

I don’t remember Dagger of the Mind enough, but I seem to remember that the machine used there was meant to improve a patient’s condition, not totally cure it.

So my skepticism grows, especially since by TNG era they have gone from a reclining chair and spinning lights to a talk therapist.

Well, who says that therapists didn’t exist in the 24th century? We never deal with people with mild mental issues in TOS and we never deal with totally mad people in TNG (there is Suder in Voyager, but we don’t know which kind of treatment he would get in the alpha quadrant).

 

[fireproof78]

Garth is “cured” once he undergoes the therapy: the machine had reached the colony but he had managed to escape before they used it on him.

From what I am reading it appears to be an injection not a machine. It acts like an antipsychotic medication.

I don’t remember Dagger of the Mind enough, but I seem to remember that the machine used there was meant to improve a patient’s condition, not totally cure it.

Except it did. It pretty much erased everything.

Well, who says that therapists didn’t exist in the 24th century? We never deal with people with mild mental issues in TOS and we never deal with totally mad people in TNG (there is Suder in Voyager, but we don’t know which kind of treatment he would get in the alpha quadrant).

Wait, what? See see a therapist in the 24th century named counselor Troi and Ezri Dax? Unless you meant 23rd? Because we see both Troi and Dax practicing like current therapists on board ship and station.

Also, Dagger of the Mind features a psychiatrist as part of the crew, Dr. Noel.

ETA: More to my point is that some technology will strain disbelief than others for other people. So, it baffles me that the idea of the large space inside the Discovery is beyond 32nd century technology but curing all mental illness is not. It's a weird line that I do not fully grasp.

 

[Discofan]

Sometimes they go a little overboard even for the star Trek universe. I mean, a pill that makes you grow a new kidney??? What else? A nasal spray that increases your IQ? An injection that makes you immune to car accidents?

 

[fireproof78]

Sometimes they go a little overboard even for the star Trek universe. I mean, a pill that makes you grow a new kidney??? What else? A nasal spray that increases your IQ? An injection that makes you immune to car accidents?

Well you see, it's 23rd/32nd century technology and we should not question it

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

More to my point is that some technology will strain disbelief than others for other people. So, it baffles me that the idea of the large space inside the Discovery is beyond 32nd century technology but curing all mental illness is not. It's a weird line that I do not fully grasp.

The big tron room in DIS season 3 actually wouldn't bother me as we have seen future Tardis tech in Enterprise but it's the fact that we already saw the funhouse in the 23rd century when it didn't exist is the problem.

I know it's not the first or only time Trek has messed up continuity but it was silly all the same

 

[fireproof78]

The big tron room in DIS season 3 actually wouldn't bother me as we have seen future Tardis tech in Enterprise but it's the fact that we already saw the funhouse in the 23rd century when it didn't exist is the problem.

I know it's not the first or only time Trek has messed up continuity but it was silly all the same

It is completely silly. My biggest thing is does it ruin entertainment? And, as weird as it sounds, it doesn't as much as "mental illness cures." Which is more to my point-just be consistent in what things are problems for you, rather than it being OK in one version of Trek but unacceptable in another. Or 32nd century technology is a cure all for all problems except for the turbolift room.

And this is meant as a general "you" not directed at you. Just my stream of consciousness prior to coffee.

 

[jackoverfull]

From what I am reading it appears to be an injection not a machine. It acts like an antipsychotic medication.

wasn't it a chair with rotating lights? That’s what I remember...anyway, even an injection could no if nanites, so...

Except it did. It pretty much erased everything.

but that’s when it was used improperly. In dagger of the mind, anyway.

It is true that Garth didn’t seem to remember things completely after his treatment, but that’s exactly why I used quotes for “cured”: he probably still had a lot of therapy to underwent.

Wait, what? See see a therapist in the 24th century named counselor Troi and Ezri Dax? Unless you meant 23rd? Because we see both Troi and Dax practicing like current therapists on board ship and station.

Sorry, I meant 23rd

Also, Dagger of the Mind features a psychiatrist as part of the crew, Dr. Noel.

So they definitely existed!

baffles me that the idea of the large space inside the Discovery is beyond 32nd century technolog

it’s not: we’ve seen a technology to do that since TNG (or even TAS, but less definitely). The problem isn’t the technology, it’s that it serves no purpose. It’s the discovery equivalent of Galaxy Quest’s corridor with stuff that cuts and crushes you (and pretty much evokes the same response).

 

[G Fan]

Below is a list of things that "grind my gears" about S3.

1. Detached Warp Nacelles
Dumbest idea in history.

2. Earth becoming isolationist.
The most unTrek idea in the history of Trek, made worse by the fact that it wasn't rectified by the end of the year.

3. Blinking breaking holograms
A flaw from the 23rd century still exists nearly a millennium later? Why didn't Pulaski blink at Moriarty??

4. "It's made of our shit"
No it's not, it's energy converted into matter.

5. The new Turbolift "shafts"
They make literally no sense, what they had before was fine and actually made sense, why change it?

6. The reason for the Burn.
So anticlimatic.

---------------------------------------
Not a bad season otherwise, season 2 is still the best one though.

Thoughts?

I agree... I need help understanding in what (if any) reality in any military environment would the senior officer appoint an ensign as the number 1 officer unless all the other officers are incapacitated. I am a lifetime Star Trek fan. I am simply flabbergasted and confused. Help me please to continue watching... I love Star Trek.

 

[Lord Garth]

I agree... I need help understanding in what (if any) reality in any military environment would the senior officer appoint an ensign as the number 1 officer unless all the other officers are incapacitated. I am a lifetime Star Trek fan. I am simply flabbergasted and confused. Help me please to continue watching... I love Star Trek.

Well, I can't, because I thought it was dumb. So you're shit out of luck. But. That one thing isn't enough to turn me off from the show. If it's enough to turn someone off from it, then there were probably other things going on too that they didn't like and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I held it against "Unification III" and "Unification III" only. After that, what's done is done. I'm not going to judge every single subsequent episode negatively over it.

TSFS brought Spock back to life after he was killed off well at the end of TWOK. Nick Meyer stayed away from TSFS because he was against what the film had undone on a dramatic level. And as much as I like TSFS, he wasn't wrong. But you know what? He only held it against TSFS. He let it go for the subsequent films because it was after the fact. My feeling is the same in regards to Tilly. So maybe she'll be a Lieutenant in S4, making it a little bit easier to swallow. Though still not perfect.

 

[fireproof78]

Help me please to continue watching... I love Star Trek.

You don't need to keep watching. Loving Star Trek doesn't mean watch everything.