MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"
- Thread starter nafeasonto
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I think this is a total non issue and they are fine as they are and the people getting worked up over it need to take a chill pill. There's nothing wrong with their identity
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Dude.
Gingerbread Demon is obviously trolling or is just a terrible person.
Typo........ I'll fix it. But I had zero issue with the character
Yep. They said they didn’t feel much like a “she”, and Stamets immediately respected it with zero fuss.
Which is exactly how it should be.
You proceed from a false assumption. Several actually, but let's just stick with the basics: -
1) Nobody is under any obligation to debate you, nor does anyone here seem to really care.
2) There is no discussion to be had. Non-Binary people exist; get with the program!
3) Shush.
I have a friend who about a year ago told me that going forward he would prefer to be referred to as a they. It took me a bit of mental gymnastics to adapt to this more in terms of remembering to do so than anything else, and I'd known them for years as a he.
But we have another shared friend, and IIRC when I told this friend that our friend would now prefer to be referred to as they, my friend's reaction was along the lines of "Yeah, I'm not doing that." Sigh.
But we have another shared friend, and IIRC when I told this friend that our friend would now prefer to be referred to as they, my friend's reaction was along the lines of "Yeah, I'm not doing that." Sigh.
I did not invite non-binary people to participate in the Memory Alpha discussion so that I could debate them myself. I invited them so that they could express their opinions about the issue and so that I and the other people on that talk page could learn something. I don't have anything against non-binary people. You seem to have formed a picture of what kind of person I am in your head, based solely on the fact that I use the term SJW. Don't pretend that you know anything about me.
Don't make me tap the sign again.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but since a poster has claimed, fallaciously, that sexual objectification is the same thing as attraction and that it is harmless, I want to post some resources about the harm sexual objectification causes, lest anyone think that other poster was being the least bit accurate.
https://wp.nyu.edu/steinhardt-appsy...xual-objectification-on-womens-mental-health/
https://msmagazine.com/2012/07/06/sexual-objectification-part-2-the-harm/
https://theconversation.com/sexuall...mselves-and-harms-emotional-well-being-120762
https://mediarelations.uwo.ca/2020/...edium=rss&utm_campaign=sexual-objectification
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-treating-ourselves-and-others-sexual-objects
https://www.healthline.com/health/sexual-objectification-eating-disorders-link
https://www.bustle.com/p/5-negative-effects-of-objectifying-women-according-to-science-2959186
https://wp.nyu.edu/steinhardt-appsy...xual-objectification-on-womens-mental-health/
https://msmagazine.com/2012/07/06/sexual-objectification-part-2-the-harm/
https://theconversation.com/sexuall...mselves-and-harms-emotional-well-being-120762
https://mediarelations.uwo.ca/2020/...edium=rss&utm_campaign=sexual-objectification
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-treating-ourselves-and-others-sexual-objects
https://www.healthline.com/health/sexual-objectification-eating-disorders-link
https://www.bustle.com/p/5-negative-effects-of-objectifying-women-according-to-science-2959186
Fair enough. You've convinced me that sexual objectification does exist and can be harmful to women in some ways. I'm sorry about being angry at you. I'm still opposed to censorship and I'm still unsure of where to draw the line between a woman being objectified and a woman who makes herself look attractive. Is it that Bobbi Sue Luther's character doesn't have a name or a personality in the episode? Would replacing the image with, for example, Navaar be more acceptable? And what about animated/illustrated women in bikinis? Is that also harmful to women?
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Thank you. I don't want to hijack this thread -- rather I'd prefer to bring this brief digression to a close and let the thread continue to be about nonbinary and transgender equality. Perhaps we can continue this conversation in another thread or on the Orion MA talk page?
There is nothing to debate or discuss. Not listing Adira’s gender as non-binary is transphobic, case closed. There nothing good that can come from debating it because it will always lead to some idiot being transphobic. Plus your use of SJW makes you appear to be arguing in bad faith. I honestly don’t know where you got the idea of what it was but they’re probably lying to you about their intentions. No one who uses that to describe anyone has good intentions. It generally leads to people getting radicalized into some pretty extreme political beliefs. So if you don’t think that represents you, then you may want to reconsider why you use that word and how it makes you look. It’s a few steps down from quoting Hitler in a positive manner.
If you don't like the term SJW, what term would you prefer I use to describe the toxic, hateful, hypocritical people who populate places like Twitter and ResetEra?
NPC? Woke weirdo? Twitter puritan?
You can't honestly say that no one who uses that to describe anyone has good intentions, since you don't most of these people. Maybe you've had a bad encounter with someone who called you an SJW. That doesn't mean that everyone who uses that term is a bad person.
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Just call them assholes, it should have nothing to do with politics. You can be a decent person and have most politic beliefs and still not be an asshole. Except for Nazis, fuck Nazis.
But it’s increasingly clear you have issues with people with political views that tend to be about supporting minority groups and women. Something you seem to find silly or worthy of mockery. I don’t think you’re necessarily a bad person, you just seem to be listening to a lot of bad people who are starting to make you into something you’re not.
NPC is a phrase used by incels and people who glamorize mass killers. It’s not something someone I would describe as reasonable. It shows that you don’t think some people are capable of thinking for themselves, just following code. Its meant to dehumanize people and easier to kill in the eyes of the people who use it a lot. It’s bullshit, you just disagree with them and can’t understand why someone would think differently than you. Turns out that the way you think isn’t the default, it’s unique to your brain. You aren’t the only person who’s right, you just convince yourself you are because that’s what everyone else is doing and humans can convince themselves that they are right about some pretty terrible things.
Mocking “wokeness” pretty shitty. It’s just mocking people for supporting minorities or movies having representation, which as someone who never got any representation growing up is pretty damn important. Especially here on a Trek forum which is known for representation. In the case of this thread, representation of non-binary people which means a hell of a lot to non-binary people who are also Trek fans. If you’re a white guy you always had Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Picard, Riker, Data (for some people). You’ve had it so long you take as a given so you don’t know how wonder a gift it is, especially to a kid. That’s why stuff that gets mocked for wokeness like Black Panther and Captain Marvel or whatever does mean a lot to some people, that’s the first time they got to experience what you’ve had your whole life. Imagine you’ve eaten cake your whole life, it would be normal to you. You might even be bored of it. But imagine you’ve never had it once and you finally get a taste of one, it would be amazing. What you are doing is mocking that, mocking someone for enjoying seeing someone like them as the hero for once or as a member of a crew of a Starfleet ship. Why would anyone want to do that?
I’m not sure what you mean by Twitter Puritan though. I’m assuming people who don’t like certain behavior. I’m curious about what that behavior is.
All of this is just fictional constructs that exist to make actual issues easier to dismiss. That’s the key thing. Saying someone is a SJW makes it easier to dismiss defending the rights of minority groups who are under attack by various forces. In the case of trans people, there are laws being passed to limit their rights. Some groups want to make it legally impossible for them to even exist. But all of it can be and has been dismissed as SJW shit and then mocked. It see it every single day. Those words are designed to slowly change the way you think. That’s how language works and how language has been used to lead a lot of people into some truly terrible things.
Just consider what you’re saying and why you’re saying it. Because you seem to be repeating a lot of ideas that are associated with very extreme groups. People like incels, red pillers, the general anti-SJW crown, anyone still listening to Joe Rogan, and various other groups that tend to end up being a pipeline to the alt right due to how the YouTube algorithm works. While you may not identify with any of those groups, you are using the same terms and ideas they do. So those ideas are already in your head. So do some self examination. No one is trying to attack you for who you are, you’re just saying a lot of stuff that is very sus and most of us have been around the internet long enough to recognize it immediately. So think about what you’re saying and why the people you listen to say it.