DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[JD]

Yeah, it's hard to judge the Cyborg thing without knowing the exact context and tone of the conversation first hand. That sounds to me like the kind of thing that could be very easily misinterpreted, especially if Fisher was already going into it with a chip on his shoulder. Which would be entirely understandable for Fisher if this was after all of the stuff with Whedon.

 

[Christopher]

I'd have to go back to look up specifics, but one thing I definitely remember being one of Fisher's complaints was that Johns would gleefully tell him that they'd introduce a different Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Which, to be quite honest, could be just a misinterpretation of a courtesy call, these kinds of misreading intent happen all the time. But then, it didn't seem to happen in a vacuum, either.

Frankly that just feels like Fisher being a prima donna, and being inexperienced in the business. He had no reason to expect that he would be cast as Cyborg in a TV series unrelated to the DCEU continuity, and thus no reason to be offended that he hadn't been. (After all, there are at least two other Cyborg actors in currently ongoing animated projects, Khary Payton in Teen Titans Go! and Zeno Robinson in Young Justice. Fisher has no unique claim on the character.) I would imagine that Johns just mentioned it as a matter of curiosity, never expecting it to be misconstrued as an attack.

 

[Tosk]

So apparently 'Restore the Snyderverse' is the most recent hashtag they've been trying to make happen. Haven't even seen the new cut yet and already "they" want more, more, MORE, MORE!

 

[Christopher]

So apparently 'Restore the Snyderverse' is the most recent hashtag they've been trying to make happen. Haven't even seen the new cut yet and already "they" want more, more, MORE, MORE!

I recently read an article about how much of politics today is driven by people being addicted to grievance. I think the same is true of fandom. It's not enough just to enjoy things anymore, you have to agitate and protest against things you consider wrong.

 

[suarezguy]

I recently read an article about how much of politics today is driven by people being addicted to grievance. I think the same is true of fandom. It's not enough just to enjoy things anymore, you have to agitate and protest against things you consider wrong.

I think that dates back to at least the '80s.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'd have to go back to look up specifics, but one thing I definitely remember being one of Fisher's complaints was that Johns would gleefully tell him that they'd introduce a different Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Which, to be quite honest, could be just a misinterpretation of a courtesy call, these kinds of misreading intent happen all the time. But then, it didn't seem to happen in a vacuum, either.

In any event, Fisher's latest grievance is with Hamada and his perceived covering for Johns.

If Johns said that to Fisher in that tone, it was unprofessional and harassing behavior which should have resulted in disciplinary action. There's no excuse for abuse in any work environment, especially against a young performer who might second guess anything about himself as a result of this kind of targeted behavior. WarnerMedia needs to consider a serious housecleaning before somewhere down the road, another situation will lead to legal rolling stone they will not be able to avoid.

 

[kirk55555]

So apparently 'Restore the Snyderverse' is the most recent hashtag they've been trying to make happen. Haven't even seen the new cut yet and already "they" want more, more, MORE, MORE!

I knew this would happen. If you give people like Snyder stans an inch, they're like sharks smelling blood. There is zero chance of Snyder's DCEU getting continued, it was a critical failure and a monetary disappointment. His fans are loud, but they're not a large group, they proved they aren't a large enough group to bring the kind of success WB wants. They couldn't even get the first live action meeting of Batman and Superman to a billion dollar box office. But Aquaman, which completely rejected Snyder's style, kicked BvS's ass at the box office, and that was probably the true death of any chance the Snyderverse had.

The WB executives seem to know this, so I'm not worried about any more Snyder style films being made after the Snyder cut. It is annoying to know we'll be dealing with rabid Snyder stans for probably the next decade, though.

Unfortunately, like WW84 proved, rejecting Snyder's style doesn't mean all DC films will be good, but they certainly have a better chance now. If they decide to go with the "let directors do their own thing" with the films as the way to differentiate themselves from the MCU, DC will probably be much more successful with their movies they they'd be under Snyder's style, even if they still have the occasional misfire.

 

[JD]

They appear to be in the process of establishing a multiverse around the DCEU, so I could see them taking advantage of that to continue Snyder's version of the DCEU if the Snyder Cut is a big hit. We wouldn't see them in theaters, but if Snyder was willing, I could see them continuing as HBOMax Originals.

 

[DigificWriter]

So apparently 'Restore the Snyderverse' is the most recent hashtag they've been trying to make happen.

Which is stupid because Snyder's narrative sensibilities and the tonal palate he helped establish remain key parts of the DCEU as it currently exists, regardless of whether or not the 'haters' want to acknowledge that fact.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Which is stupid because Snyder's narrative sensibilities and the tonal palate he helped establish remain key parts of the DCEU as it currently exists, regardless of whether or not the 'haters' want to acknowledge that fact.

What "tonal palate" was seen in Shazam or WW84 that is a direct influence of Snyder?

 

[Kai "the spy"]

There's an interpretation, I think it was someone from the SJU team over at Fandom, seeing the #RestoreTheSnyderverse movement as a direct response over the "no plans for Snyder spin-offs" comment in that NYT article, and one that might have actually been playing into WB/DC's cards. Basically, seeing how agitating fanbases works now, they put this comment out deliberately to mobilize the Snyder fans and create a hype for when they eventually "cave in". Seeing as how self-defeating the comment appears when the JL Snyder Cut hasn't even been released yet, I must say that theory is not without merit.

 

[DigificWriter]

What "tonal palate" was seen in Shazam or WW84 that is a direct influence of Snyder?

The mixing of the fantastical into the "real world".

There's also a consistency of narrative tone running through the franchise in the fact that every movie explores some kind of sociological or philosophical theme.

 

[CaptainJonathanArcher]

Yeah, it's hard to judge the Cyborg thing without knowing the exact context and tone of the conversation first hand. That sounds to me like the kind of thing that could be very easily misinterpreted, especially if Fisher was already going into it with a chip on his shoulder. Which would be entirely understandable for Fisher if this was after all of the stuff with Whedon.

If the cast loved how Joss Whedon interpreted their characters, they praised him They told stories if they didn't.

https://www.celebretainment.com/mov...cle_a8058aae-b77d-5dcf-b25d-1d55e9093ca2.html

https://www.ign.com/articles/justic...-zack-snyder-cyborg-scene-in-joss-whedons-cut

 

[CaptainJonathanArcher]

I knew this would happen. If you give people like Snyder stans an inch, they're like sharks smelling blood. There is zero chance of Snyder's DCEU getting continued, it was a critical failure and a monetary disappointment. His fans are loud, but they're not a large group, they proved they aren't a large enough group to bring the kind of success WB wants. They couldn't even get the first live action meeting of Batman and Superman to a billion dollar box office. But Aquaman, which completely rejected Snyder's style, kicked BvS's ass at the box office, and that was probably the true death of any chance the Snyderverse had.

The WB executives seem to know this, so I'm not worried about any more Snyder style films being made after the Snyder cut. It is annoying to know we'll be dealing with rabid Snyder stans for probably the next decade, though.

Unfortunately, like WW84 proved, rejecting Snyder's style doesn't mean all DC films will be good, but they certainly have a better chance now. If they decide to go with the "let directors do their own thing" with the films as the way to differentiate themselves from the MCU, DC will probably be much more successful with their movies they they'd be under Snyder's style, even if they still have the occasional misfire.

The awesome Aquaman movie was like the Geoff Johns run!

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The mixing of the fantastical into the "real world".

There's also a consistency of narrative tone running through the franchise in the fact that every movie explores some kind of sociological or philosophical theme.

Well that's generic, unspecific and descriptive of much of the superhero output of late.
There's a much closer line between the Marvel Netflix shows and Snyder than with his tone and Shazam or WW84.

 

[DigificWriter]

Well that's generic, unspecific and descriptive of much of the superhero output of late.
There's a much closer line between the Marvel Netflix shows and Snyder than with his tone and Shazam or WW84.

I disagree.

Prior to the development and release of Man of Steel, the only comic-book films that felt truly like they were taking place in our actual world were Christopher Nolan's Batman films, and when Nolan teamed up with Snyder and David S. Goyer for MoS, that stylistic and tonal philosophy - which worked excellently when applied to a decidedly human character like Batman - was carried over and almost as flawly applied to decidedly superhuman characters and situations.

MoS is also the first DC Comics film to make socialogical commentary (about the nature of humanity and moral obligation) the foundation of its narrative, and each subsequent film in the DCEU pantheon - even those directed by people other than Snyder - have followed suit.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I disagree.

Prior to the development and release of Man of Steel, the only comic-book films that felt truly like they were taking place in our actual world were Christopher Nolan's Batman films, and when Nolan teamed up with Snyder and David S. Goyer for MoS, that stylistic and tonal philosophy - which worked excellently when applied to a decidedly human character like Batman - was carried over and almost as flawly applied to decidedly superhuman characters and situations.

I'd argue that even Nolan's Batman films didn't feel like they were taking place in our world, let alone anything Snyder has done.

MoS is also the first DC Comics film to make socialogical commentary (about the nature of humanity and moral obligation) the foundation of its narrative, and each subsequent film in the DCEU pantheon - even those directed by people other than Snyder - have followed suit.

Superman IV did this over 30 years ago. Again, it's not a Snyder exclusive to add social commentary to a superhero film, let alone a DC one.

And again, I ask, how does Shazam and WW84 specifically fit into the Snyder mold and influence? They really don't. Not even a little bit.

 

[The Realist]

There was social commentary in freaking Superman and the Mole-Men, 15 years before Zack Snyder was born. (And it was better social commentary, a better Superman, and a better movie.)

Also, blessedly enough, Shazam! shows no trace of Snyder's sensibilities whatsoever.

DigificWriter is talking out of his nether regions here.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Even earlier than that Superman famously fought the Ku Klux Klan on the radio series.

There probably was always elements of extremism in various fandoms. But social media magnified it and allowed the fringes to spread their ideas.

A film or tv series having a “cult following” used to be a compliment. In some cases it’s just straight up Cult. Also a reminder that the term of fan orientated with the word Fanatic.

 

[Christopher]

Even earlier than that Superman famously fought the Ku Klux Klan on the radio series.

Which was actually toward the end of a longer series of storylines about Superman fighting bigots, fascists, and neo-Nazis. It's the most famous and influential of the storylines, but by no means the only one.

And even before that, the very earliest years of the Superman comics were full of social commentary. Early Superman was a radical fighter for social justice, even using what were essentially terrorist tactics to force change, e.g. tearing down an entire slum neighborhood so the city would have to build better housing, or breaking into a radio station to threaten auto makers to stop cutting corners on safety if they didn't want him to destroy their factories.