Canonically they don't. Undine comes from STO.
Does Species 8472 Still Exist in the 30th Century?
- Thread starter Dryson
- Start date
It does seem odd that there seem to be so many humans in Starfleet when we know Earth's no longer a member...
Not all humans live on Earth.
Of course, but the TNG level of seemingly human characters and extras seems like way too much.
Not from a cost angle.
Tons of looks like a human but are alien types in TOS and even TNG. Just pretend three out of four human actors are play one of them.
8472 is still cosplaying all these centuries later.
Not from a cost angle.
Tons of looks like a human but are alien types in TOS and even TNG. Just pretend three out of four human actors are play one of them.
That's what I do when watching TOS and TNG (and DS9 and Voyager); no reason to stop now.
Who said anything about Species 8742 sharing it?
Given that Voyager disclosed the nature of their weapons against them, given 8472's isolationist and xenophobic tendencies, I do not see them volunteering the information, nor were there many threats that could take the tech away, at least not immediately apparent.
So, yeah, I don't see it becoming known. So, again, irrelevant.
Who said anything about them volunteering the information?
We also found out that Osyra used one of the old Borg transwarp conduits to get where she needs to go.
If those Borg transwarp conduits are still active, then the Borg are still active. If the Borg are still active so to are the Undine seeing as how the timeline has not changed since the Discovery made its jump from the past to the future and didn't pull a Nero in the process.
They have no reason to venture out of their realm. The question presumes much without evidence.
Well, we know the Borg are still in existence, or will be in existence again, because of Lower Decks, but the transwarp conduit doesn't tell us anything about their current status. They could be abandoned conduits. The Emerald Chain may have taken over some of the xB network.
Some have suggested that some Borg (or xBs) are members of the Chain, based on one masked member's demeanor and use of the term "irrelevant". That would be neat. Perhaps the Borg have stopped assimilating and are just another culture now, trying to get by and making alliances.
None of that tells us anything about 8472, who may have closed off their borders, or been destroyed in some war, or became good guys after spending years learning about human(oid) morality.
There has to be a Borg consciousness keeping the conduits active. If all of the Borg are dead, then where is the consciousness keeping the conduits active? Without a Queen Borg to facilitate operations of the conduits through Borg Drones, the conduits should simply offline.
If there any Borg left in the galaxy, XB or Collective, it is doubtful that the Undine are friendly, especially since the Undine caught Starfleet siding with the Borg during the war between the Undine and Borg.
I really don't see the Eggplant Queen, Osyra, being able to offer to much to any XB, other then piles of rusting ship parts, contaminated puddles of water and non-fertile dirt.
I mean, Janeway negotiated with them in good faith, so 8472 have no reason to come back and attack, unless someone provoked them. And given how much grief they inflicted upon the Hirogen and Borg I doubt many other powers would feel a need or desire to go poking around.
8472 are safely tucked in their beds, while visions of mutilated Borg dance in their heads.
...but in the big scheme of things, the Undine have technology that is better then warp drive and even Borg conduits making their propulsion technology a very sought after commodity by those looking to survive. Regardless, survival has to play a part in the Federation's ideology, otherwise the Federation won't survive.
If anyone would try to find a way into Fluidic Space to acquire Undine propulsion tech, it would be Michael Burnham, who has made herself the savior of the Federation.
Again, assumes much without much to base it on. 8472 has no reason venture out, and the Federation has little incentive to seek them out given they cannot negotiate from a position of strength.
The Queen was responsible for regulating the shielding for the manifolds that were inside TW conduits created by the TW hubs, however, this wouldn't apply to independently generated conduits.
We've seen that TW conduits can exist independently of the manifolds, so its possible that the ones seen in both ST Picard and Discovery are both independently made (either by the Borg, or some other species - possibly the Federation as an experiment too).
Its' possible the Federation created some of these TW conduits when looking for alternatives to Warp when Dilithium started drying up, but then stopped when discovering the chances of surviving one are 50% (which I STILL find ridiculous).
The conduits would probably degrade over time, which could affect both stability of the conduit (and thus survivability of the craft inside it - which makes more sense depending on how old they are) and the speed at which the craft is moving.
Its also possible the conduits were created a long time ago with new technology that didn't require them to be maintained with physical structures like manifolds... but rather the ships passing through them could maintain them by emitting reinforcing fields over time... otherwise, they would degrade.
And Voyager also established a truce with 8472 and exchanged technologies too. The 8472 in the recreated SF habitat also extended an invitation to the Voyager crew to relax for a bit (but Janeway politely declined saying they have a long way to go).
We don't have any other canonical data on what 8472 was up to (ST: Online and books aren't canon) in the proceeding years or centuries.
Its highly likely they just kept to themselves in Fluidic Realm, and its also possible that once Starfleet/Federation grew more in the next few hundreds of years after Voyager, they re-initiated contact with 8472 and established formal diplomatic relations (essentially picking up from where Voyager left it last).
Eggplant Queen?
Who the heck is that?
As for Osyraa offering anything to XB's... well, the Borg are known to salvage damaged technology. If anything they could use it as raw material to create something new.
To be fair, given the technology available in the 24th century already (and now the 32nd), any 'scrap' would basically be treated as base matter which can be disassembled into base elements and reconstituted into something else (anything really).
Things like 'scrap yards' shouldn't really exist when you think about it. Its just a massive waste of raw materials. Instead you'd salvage the old stuff, break it down and use it to make new stuff... and because of technical efficiency, you'd be able to make MORE of the new stuff using the old.
Anyway, the Borg aren't necessarily the ones creating/leaving those TW conduits... so, Osyraa would know about them because the couriers had to manage with lower resources and they reported back to the Emerald Chain.
This TW conduit was likely in relative vicinity of the nebula (at one time it may have been created either by the Borg or someone else) because they detected possible Dilithium signatures, so when Osyraa figured out where Discovery would jump to, she decided to use the TW conduit to get to the nearby location and cover the remaining distance to Discovery by regular Warp.
