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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Ovation said:
Wow. Another thing in agreement. Must be the Christmas spirit. ;) (Into Darkness is my favourite Trek film of all, by a considerable margin over the rest, with only '09 within striking distance.)
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'09 is okay, but I thought Abrams's follow-up improved on it in every way. TWoK is the only Trek movie that beats STiD for me.
Perhaps it would have been Lana Lang--or maybe Lori Lemaris. Not "instead of Lois" but rather, "before Lois". Lois would have been in the second movie for sure (I can confirm it--I've just returned from Earth-247 where this alternate movie was made. Or maybe I've been marking too many bad essays--who knows?)
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"Before Lois" is okay, especially if it's Stacy Haiduk as Lana in the syndicated Superboy series. As much of a hardcore Clois shipper as I am, I kind of hate to think of Haiduk eventually eating Lois Lane's dust, as is the fate of all Lanas everywhere.
 
F. King Daniel said:
I was impressed when the plane came apart in Superman Returns rather than allow Supes to effortlessly hold it at the end of one wrist without physics-related repercussions.
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Superman: The Animated Series did that too, when he tried to catch the plane by its tail and just tore it off. "Nice one, Clark."
 
The Realist said:
A little Googling reveals that, weirdly, Pike was rumored at one point for Man of Steel as the film's female lead, who was NOT Lois Lane. Alice Eve and Diane Kruger were also supposed to be in the running for this mystery role. I question if it was ever anything more than rumor (and replacing Lois with some other character can kiss my ass in any case).
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Well, if the character was going to be Lana Lang or one of the actual canon Superman women I wouldn't have minded. After all, I thought the Lana Lang in the Reeve movies was a better done character than Kidder's Lois.
 
^ Congratulations on "Reeve." That's apparently super hard to get right, for some ungodly reason.

I am of the belief that Lois is and always should be endgame, but Lana is part of the Superman canon too, and between Haiduk and O'Toole, she's had some pretty great live-action portrayals. (I even have a soft spot for Kristin Kreuk.)

In any case, far better to see Clark paired with Lana than with Wonder Woman. :barf: I can scarcely think of a more fundamental misunderstanding of the foundations of the character.
 
The Realist said:
^ Congratulations on "Reeve." That's apparently super hard to get right, for some ungodly reason.

I am of the belief that Lois is and always should be endgame, but Lana is part of the Superman canon too, and between Haiduk and O'Toole, she's had some pretty great live-action portrayals. (I even have a soft spot for Kristin Kreuk.)

In any case, far better to see Clark paired with Lana than with Wonder Woman. :barf: I can scarcely think of a more fundamental misunderstanding of the foundations of the character.
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Especially since when Clark and WW WERE together, WW kept getting called "Superman's Girlfriend" instead of her own equal character.

You don't see Catwoman being degraded like that with her pairing with Bruce.
 
Anwar said:
Well, if the character was going to be Lana Lang or one of the actual canon Superman women I wouldn't have minded. After all, I thought the Lana Lang in the Reeve movies was a better done character than Kidder's Lois.
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I've learned not to worry about superhero movies inventing their own love interests after I ended up really liking Michelle in the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. Although she does have the initials MJ, and there was Michelle Gonzales in the comics, so she could possibly be considered a combination of her and Mary Jane. Although her backstory and personality don't really match up to either of them.
 
The Realist said:
In any case, far better to see Clark paired with Lana than with Wonder Woman. :barf: I can scarcely think of a more fundamental misunderstanding of the foundations of the character.
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Since I knew it wouldn't last, I didn't mind the pairing for a while (what? Me liking something untraditional? Perish the thought. :p ;) ).
I was less interested in the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing per se, and more intrigued by a "friends/rival" Clark/Lois dynamic.
 
Ovation said:
Since I knew it wouldn't last, I didn't mind the pairing for a while (what? Me liking something untraditional? Perish the thought. :p ;) ).
I was less interested in the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing per se, and more intrigued by a "friends/rival" Clark/Lois dynamic.
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I didn't mind it either--it was never meant to last and I liked the reason for it. Clark had never been with Lois at that point and Diana had had a falling out with Steve--they decided that public super-heroes with power sets of their level could never have a relationship with unpowered humans. They were already close friends and took that to a romantic level. Eventually they realized that it wasn't right for them.
 
I think what sometimes gets lost in these discussions is whether something can be justified in-story, versus whether it's fundamentally a good idea to begin with. Sure, you can write yourself to a place where Superman is banging Wonder Woman, or where he has "no choice" but to snap a man's neck, but why would you?

For my friend Ovation, the answer is always the creative equivalent of, "Because it's there" -- not "why," but "why not?"

My perspective is that I love Superman not in some abstract, intellectual way, but in a personal and emotional one. I don't come to a Superman story for it to be "interesting" or "challenging" in how deconstructive or untraditional it can be. I come to it because I want a story about that guy who's in love with Lois Lane, that guy who always finds a better way, that guy who lifts the world up instead of letting it pull him down.

(And, as always, "realism" doesn't matter worth a shit to me in these stories, in the way that some demand it. I 100% do not care if the public would "really" love and embrace Superman and consider him a hero. They do in his stories, because that's one of the things that makes it a story about Superman, and not some other character.)

I know there are those who would consider this a shallow approach, that a character created as a figure of wish-fulfillment and fantasy for children must somehow be rendered "deeper" if we are to permit ourselves to enjoy him as adults. But if I want deep and dark and serious and realistic, there are an infinite number of characters and stories to turn to that are not Superman. That's not the role he fills, or the need he satisfies.

(For me, if it must be said, lest anyone get their knickers in a wad.)
 
The Realist said:
I I love Superman not in some abstract, intellectual way, but in a personal and emotional one. I want a story about that guy who's in love with Lois Lane, that guy who always finds a better way, that guy who lifts the world up instead of letting it pull him down.
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Man of Steel (and BvS and the Justice League theatrical cut) offers every singe one of these things.

It just does so in a way that makes the character interesting for and relatable to modern audiences.
 
theenglish said:
I didn't mind it either--it was never meant to last and I liked the reason for it. Clark had never been with Lois at that point and Diana had had a falling out with Steve--they decided that public super-heroes with power sets of their level could never have a relationship with unpowered humans. They were already close friends and took that to a romantic level. Eventually they realized that it wasn't right for them.
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Did the DCAU or one of the Elseworlds stories have Wonder Woman and Batman get together? To me that actually seems like a better pairing that her and Superman.
 
DigificWriter said:
Man of Steel (and BvS and the Justice League theatrical cut) offers every singe one of these things.

It just does so in a way that makes the character interesting for and relatable to modern audiences.
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The first, sure (which is why it's the very best aspect of those movies).

The latter two, no. Neck-snapping is not the "better way." Constant misery and moping is not "lifting the world up instead of letting it pull him down." (And don't bother to tell me how that stuff is still there if you peer really hard through all the gloom and doom, because not interested.)

And WTF is with the "modern audiences" thing, anyway? It's a perverse sort of self-congratulation to claim that we're no longer capable of appreciating the wonder and joy of something like Superman '78, because we're not dummies and rubes like those moron audiences of 40 years ago. If we actually have lost that capacity, it's certainly not to our betterment or benefit.
 
JD said:
Did the DCAU or one of the Elseworlds stories have Wonder Woman and Batman get together? To me that actually seems like a better pairing that her and Superman.
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Yes, in the DCAU Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, there was a developing attraction between Batman and WW. I don't recall how far it got, though.
 
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