Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x10 - "Terra Firma, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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It was written in to the Star Fleet Charter, literally, Section 31.
23rd century:
Mirror Georgiou: Well Spock, your sister's fine. She even got herself a new boyfriend. That's all I can tell you, Temporal Prime Directive and all that.
Spock: Fascinating. I can now continue my vow of silence about her existence without guilt. Of course, Vulcans do not feel guilt.
Mirror Georgiou: Of course not.
Spock: How did I die?
Mirror Georgiou: Direct and to the point aren't you Mr. Spock? So very Vulcan, and yet your very question itself is not, and violates multiple temporal regulations. But I'll tell you. A young Romulan named Nero, who was a miner before he turned to evil, helped--
Tyler (appears out of nowhere): Ok, that's enough, time to get back to Section 31 business.
Spock: Fascinating. (Years later, Spock remembers enough of this conversation to know that his death will not be final during the Battle of the Mutara Nebula, rendering Wrath of Khan even more meaningless)
Mirror Georgiou: Well Spock, your sister's fine. She even got herself a new boyfriend. That's all I can tell you, Temporal Prime Directive and all that.
Spock: Fascinating. I can now continue my vow of silence about her existence without guilt. Of course, Vulcans do not feel guilt.
Mirror Georgiou: Of course not.
Spock: How did I die?
Mirror Georgiou: Direct and to the point aren't you Mr. Spock? So very Vulcan, and yet your very question itself is not, and violates multiple temporal regulations. But I'll tell you. A young Romulan named Nero, who was a miner before he turned to evil, helped--
Tyler (appears out of nowhere): Ok, that's enough, time to get back to Section 31 business.
Spock: Fascinating. (Years later, Spock remembers enough of this conversation to know that his death will not be final during the Battle of the Mutara Nebula, rendering Wrath of Khan even more meaningless)
Sorry, The Star Fleet Charter. So Section 31 (org) can’t exist prior to the establishment of Earth Star Fleet.
The only ones who said Section 31 originate from the Starfleet Charter are Section 31, and I don't trust them. Section 31 could've been formed in 2150 or 1950 or 1150 BCE as far as we know.
Wow! Captain Killy would be great at taking temperatures during screens for Covid-19! Her thermometer aim would be flawless.
God I hope not. I really don't want S31 to be the illuminati, deep state or some shit like that.
Time-frame of the Section 31 Series. Pros and Cons for each:
1990s (Eugenics Wars) --> No. Setting it here makes it hard to suspend disbelief that Star Trek could be The Future. And it would just feel weird. It would be a show set in an alternate version of when I was in high school. Really weird.
2020s (Today) --> Could be. It would probably play like an updated version of "Assignment: Earth", except with Georgiou instead of Gary Seven. Don't ask me about Isis.
2063-2258 (after First Contact, up to DSC S2) --> Hmmm. If Georgiou ends up here, you'd think that the Georgiou from DSC S2 would've been able to find it out, classified or not. She's crafty and knew how to get the dirt on Leland. So I don't think it takes place during this roughly 200-year span.
2258+ (after DSC S2) --> That's a possibility. Section 31 in the 23rd Century would already know who she is. Most importantly Tyler would know who she is. And this is a chance to work L'Rell back in, if they deal with any Klingon stuff. You can have an occasional crossover with Pike too. This series would delve more into the political mechanics of the 23rd Century in a way that I assume Strange New Worlds wouldn't.
2399+ (Picard Era) --> This is another possibility. They can further build up the turn of the 25th Century. I can't see Picard being a fan of Section 31. So that sets up an interesting type of potential conflict. If Patrick Stewart were ever up for an appearance outside of Picard. The more I think about it, the more I'd rather see Seven of Nine make a guest-appearance. Seven and Georgiou would make the perfect bad-ass team-up.
27th Century --> Totally unfamiliar territory. It's a chance for everything (except Georgiou) to be new and specific to this series. The only drawback is that Georgiou has to explain who she is, where she came from, the story behind it all, yadda, yadda. It could work.
1990s (Eugenics Wars) --> No. Setting it here makes it hard to suspend disbelief that Star Trek could be The Future. And it would just feel weird. It would be a show set in an alternate version of when I was in high school. Really weird.
2020s (Today) --> Could be. It would probably play like an updated version of "Assignment: Earth", except with Georgiou instead of Gary Seven. Don't ask me about Isis.
2063-2258 (after First Contact, up to DSC S2) --> Hmmm. If Georgiou ends up here, you'd think that the Georgiou from DSC S2 would've been able to find it out, classified or not. She's crafty and knew how to get the dirt on Leland. So I don't think it takes place during this roughly 200-year span.
2258+ (after DSC S2) --> That's a possibility. Section 31 in the 23rd Century would already know who she is. Most importantly Tyler would know who she is. And this is a chance to work L'Rell back in, if they deal with any Klingon stuff. You can have an occasional crossover with Pike too. This series would delve more into the political mechanics of the 23rd Century in a way that I assume Strange New Worlds wouldn't.
2399+ (Picard Era) --> This is another possibility. They can further build up the turn of the 25th Century. I can't see Picard being a fan of Section 31. So that sets up an interesting type of potential conflict. If Patrick Stewart were ever up for an appearance outside of Picard. The more I think about it, the more I'd rather see Seven of Nine make a guest-appearance. Seven and Georgiou would make the perfect bad-ass team-up.
27th Century --> Totally unfamiliar territory. It's a chance for everything (except Georgiou) to be new and specific to this series. The only drawback is that Georgiou has to explain who she is, where she came from, the story behind it all, yadda, yadda. It could work.
Despite not advancing season 3's plot, I thought Terra Firma, Part 2 was a good conclusion to the previous episode.
Not sure about the Guardian of Forever's ability to move to other planets. Kind of convenient, I think. Then again, I suppose anything's possible. Maybe the Continuum gave him a hand.
GoF's reveal could have been handled in a better way, though. "I'm the Guardian of Forever!!!" What the heck? That said, the special effects were pretty cool.
There seems to be an alternate Mirror Universe now. Which one did we see in TOS and DS9?
Looks like the writers are planning to ditch Saru as Discovery's Captain. Hello, Captain Burnham?
Something tells me Booker inadvertently infected Discovery with Emerald Chain's virus.
8/10
Not sure about the Guardian of Forever's ability to move to other planets. Kind of convenient, I think. Then again, I suppose anything's possible. Maybe the Continuum gave him a hand.
GoF's reveal could have been handled in a better way, though. "I'm the Guardian of Forever!!!" What the heck? That said, the special effects were pretty cool.
There seems to be an alternate Mirror Universe now. Which one did we see in TOS and DS9?
Looks like the writers are planning to ditch Saru as Discovery's Captain. Hello, Captain Burnham?
Something tells me Booker inadvertently infected Discovery with Emerald Chain's virus.
8/10
I mean, I suppose we could force it all to fit it if, say, Mirror Stamets, Mirror Landry, Mirror Georgiou (and who else am I forgetting) didn't really die in these episodes and Mirror Georgiou's sudden confusion at the loss of her future self's consciousness departing as well as injuries from killing Mirror Burnham caused her to relay a jumbled version (i.e. the "original" version) of these events to Michael in Season 1...
In fact since we now know Mirror Burnham was still bent on deposing Mirror Georgiou, it's completely possible that she secretly allowed Mirror Landry and Mirror Stamets to escape after healing their injuries, and likewise faked the deaths of a bunch of other co-conspirators she supposedly killed.
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yeah at this rate they'll have giant spectral hands grabbing starships.
If I'm not commenting on them from Lord Garth's post, I don't think its viable.
I think that if they wanted to bring it into the 23rd century time period, that would work okay and it might be nice to see her working closely with Ash Tyler, but my preference would be to move it about 50 years after that. As I suggested upthread, the period between TUC and TNG is a veritable goldmine of untapped potential. So much that could happen in this time that could be well-explained and utilized, along with a lot we don't know about the time. The issue with this time, is in a lot of places, we know how things have to be. It does, therefore, reduce some of the drama possibilities.
I think this might be the most likely of the periods (as much as I might want the 23rd century more). We believe, at this point, that S31 was destroyed decades ago with Sloan (or do we?) Rebuilding from scratch is an interesting idea. And it puts Phillipa in a new era. Personally, I would prefer a few decades or so from Picard so we have a slightly new era to allow for some new designs but at the same time, keeping it relatively familiar. I just would prefer to have some space from all things so we don't have to constantly wonder if we're going to get that highly desired Barclay guest spot.
No matter where you sent Phillipa, she's going to have to explain all of that. While its more than likely S31 will be watched primarily by fans who are up on all things, you still have to make it accessible and make a jumping in point. Having said that, and I might sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I don't know that the production is going to create another completely new era, one particularly where you'd have to basically start from the beginning on designs, it being completely untapped, at this time. Again, it could happen but we'll see.
I think that if they wanted to bring it into the 23rd century time period, that would work okay and it might be nice to see her working closely with Ash Tyler, but my preference would be to move it about 50 years after that. As I suggested upthread, the period between TUC and TNG is a veritable goldmine of untapped potential. So much that could happen in this time that could be well-explained and utilized, along with a lot we don't know about the time. The issue with this time, is in a lot of places, we know how things have to be. It does, therefore, reduce some of the drama possibilities.
I think this might be the most likely of the periods (as much as I might want the 23rd century more). We believe, at this point, that S31 was destroyed decades ago with Sloan (or do we?) Rebuilding from scratch is an interesting idea. And it puts Phillipa in a new era. Personally, I would prefer a few decades or so from Picard so we have a slightly new era to allow for some new designs but at the same time, keeping it relatively familiar. I just would prefer to have some space from all things so we don't have to constantly wonder if we're going to get that highly desired Barclay guest spot.
No matter where you sent Phillipa, she's going to have to explain all of that. While its more than likely S31 will be watched primarily by fans who are up on all things, you still have to make it accessible and make a jumping in point. Having said that, and I might sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I don't know that the production is going to create another completely new era, one particularly where you'd have to basically start from the beginning on designs, it being completely untapped, at this time. Again, it could happen but we'll see.
How so? There’s no correlation between ignoring somebody and speaking against the thing you ignored them for. As for the rest of your comment, I don’t think it’s particularly accurate. I asked a question because I didn’t know if the function existed, but I then found it so updated the post. I didn’t loudly do anything (if such a thing is even possible via text). I didn’t announce anything. I asked a question.
Can you please let me know which rule I broke and how to find the rules, so I can either avoid breaking the rules again or leave if I don’t agree with them. Thanks.
Well that’s your choice not to ignore them, isn’t it? It’s my choice to ignore them. Although I don’t really feel the need to defend my choice to you, it basically boils down to not wanting to waste my time on the type of content that poster shares. Mileage varies, I guess.
I recall Shazad Latif expecting to be called back into production as Ash Tyler/Voq for t the Section 31 show. For a while I wasn’t sure if that was going to happen, but my guess is that she’s going back to the prime 23rd century at the point which they left. Makes the most sense also from a production sense: Strange New Worlds is set then and they have sets and costumes of that era. I’d guess that they would stay in Canada. Eventually I’m expecting the Discovery crew to switch uniforms, but they can continue to be used on SNW and S31. Would love to get an official announcement that those shows will be shot consecutively starting in February. I’m guess that Gersha Phillips will remain the guru of Canadian Trek for all those shows. Very exciting.
Tyler's biologically a Klingon and could somehow be around in the 25th century (although this would be a stretch as even Kor started falling apart once he got that old). Or he can use his son's time crystals or something to get to the 25th century. I'm not eager to retread the 23rd century past Strange New Worlds honestly.
You had me until the last sentence. I agree that the GoF seems to have been mysteriously upgraded, but a machine simulating human behavior is not only a SF concept, it's one that has popped up repeatedly in Trek. And a machine with access to the timeline should be able to know what you want before you do.
Complaining that the DSC GoF is a fantasy concept just makes your argument easier to dismiss.
I liked the MU stuff OK, though not as much as last week’s. Could have done with less treacle after the return to the PU.
Didn’t care about the Guardian reveal, though the way it was presented, with the booming announcement, theatrical FX and hard cut, struck me as fannish and made me laugh. I wondered how many viewers have never seen CotEoF. For a show that insists on reinventing Trek for mainstream audiences, it sure enjoys insider stuff like this. (Whoever would have thought professionally produced Trek would give us the Guardian of Forever and the MU in the same episode? It sounds like fan fiction.)
I thought they did a good enough job with the Emperor’s rehabilitation, or as good a job as could be done in two episodes. But I’m happy to see her go.
Didn’t care about the Guardian reveal, though the way it was presented, with the booming announcement, theatrical FX and hard cut, struck me as fannish and made me laugh. I wondered how many viewers have never seen CotEoF. For a show that insists on reinventing Trek for mainstream audiences, it sure enjoys insider stuff like this. (Whoever would have thought professionally produced Trek would give us the Guardian of Forever and the MU in the same episode? It sounds like fan fiction.)
I thought they did a good enough job with the Emperor’s rehabilitation, or as good a job as could be done in two episodes. But I’m happy to see her go.
Well, Spock's just trying to preserve the integrity of the timeline. Besides, if he told everyone to relax because he's going to get better, they'd just think the radiation had fried his brain.
Conceivably, Section 31 could have incorporated some pre-existing organization's personnel and methods. Sort of how some components of the WW2 OSS became the CIA. But then the earlier organization can't be called Section 31.
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