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NOW WHAT??? (The Death of HD DVD)

CaptainHawk1

Commodore
If you haven't heard already the HD DVD format is offically dead with the announcement by Toshiba two days ago that they would no longer be producing the players for the format that they invented. Obviously the writing was on the wall ever since January when Warner announced that they were dropping the HD DVD format in favor of Sony's Blu Ray format. Personally, I didn't care either way as I hedged my bets and bought an HD DVD player and a Sony PS3 at Christmas time.

But the problem is, my sole reason for wanting an HD DVD player was because Paramount adopted the format and of course the Remasters of TOS were supposed to be released solely on HD DVD.

So, what's the deal with Paramount? Are they going re-release the first season on Blu Ray or am I just stuck with this HD DVD set? Also, will the future sets be available in the Blu Ray format.

I want answers. I didn't mind being caugt up in the format war and I wouldn't have cared if they were both successful but now I've gotten the short end of the stick and I feel like i've been screwed by Paramount. I'll get over the lost money but I want to know what to expect in the future.

-Shawn :borg:
 
Plenty of us are waiting for that announcement from CBS/Paramount. I bought for the DVD side only and my worry is this... switching to Blu Ray may mean no standard definition release for S2 & S3.
 
Okay, I posted this on the thread about the firefighter being saved when a bullet was stopped by a DVD in his pocket, but I'll also post it here. I pretty much don't understand these types of things and rely on a friend to explain them to me. He said Blu-Ray was less stable and fragile. He had experimented with them both. All I have is your run-of-the-mill DVD player. So am I out in the cold and nothing will play on my DVD player??? :confused:
 
estrea said:
Okay, I posted this on the thread about the firefighter being saved when a bullet was stopped by a DVD in his pocket, but I'll also post it here. I pretty much don't understand these types of things and rely on a friend to explain them to me. He said Blu-Ray was less stable and fragile. He had experimented with them both. All I have is your run-of-the-mill DVD player. So am I out in the cold and nothing will play on my DVD player??? :confused:

^^^^
Of course not - regular DVDs will still play on your player; and right now no matter how you spin it; BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are honestly right now still a VERY SMALL niche within the DVD market.
 
Yep, bought all 79 TOS episodes on single tape vhs copies. Then again on 2 ep. dvds. Then again as full season dvd sets. recently season 1 on HDdvd. Now am I supposed to again re-buy the updated fx versions on bluray too?!
In another 5 years....do I buy them again in another format?
 
captscarlet said:
Yep, bought all 79 TOS episodes on single tape vhs copies. Then again on 2 ep. dvds. Then again as full season dvd sets. recently season 1 on HDdvd.

Paramount loves you. :) How come you didn't buy it on Laserdisc?
 
captscarlet said:
Yep, bought all 79 TOS episodes on single tape vhs copies. Then again on 2 ep. dvds. Then again as full season dvd sets. recently season 1 on HDdvd. Now am I supposed to again re-buy the updated fx versions on bluray too?!
In another 5 years....do I buy them again in another format?
Yes. You. Will.

Based on your track record, it is inevitable.
 
I'm not upgrading from VHS until, say, five to ten years from now. I've seen (and foreseen) the death of two or three intervening formats that offered fairly little in terms of user-friendliness, virtually nothing in permanence of storage, and absolutely nothing in intrinsic value.

It's more or less inevitable that audiovisual recording go formatless in a decade or so. Recordings will have to exist in a form accessible by any random reader across the completely virtual distribution network, and actual playing hardware will cease to exist, save for the loudspeakers or earphones themselves. I can easily hold out till then, or (if I run out of VHS tapes or spares for my VCR) buy one intervening format.

Anyway, it feels good to own a solid two shelf-meters of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY, plus some SG-1, all at the price of blank VHS tapes.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo: The problem with always waiting is that there's always a new format just over the horizon that someone thinks you should wait for. What if you had listened to those who said not to buy VHS because the new CED video disks would be better? You would have deprived yourself of years of viewing pleasure. Five or ten years from now there will be yet another new technology on the horizon.

For myself, I strongly disagree that the new formats don't offer any benefit. Standard def DVD offered a substantially improved image compared to even the best VHS, and the (now obsolete) HD-DVD versions of TOS-R are little short of spectacular.

I won't buy every new edition that the studio tries to hawk, but I don't mind making a selective investment when there is a genuine improvement that is worth it to me. Obviously, your mileage will vary in defining a "genuine improvement," but the above two examples (DVD and HD) are so clearly superior to VHS (especially off-the-air VHS) that I'm surprised that some fans who are obviously highly perceptive choose not to see it.

Anyway, even though HD-DVD is now obsolete, I will continue to enjoy those disks.
 
For my part, the long lifespan of the VHS tape is sufficient reason not to try out anything new for the time being. The technology continues to be perfectly viable thirty years after its introduction, delivering an image that still borders on the limits of resolution of the display devices - "high definition" offers little improvement in practice, as one would have to purchase an unnecessarily complex and expensive display to enjoy the improvement.

Moreover, off-air VHS is almost hardware-independent: there is a worldwide pool of recording and playing devices that are compatible with everything I have, and this gear can be repaired on the cheap. Or not actually repaired, as some parts are out of production and not worth tinkering with - but caches of "obsolete" spares and dirt-cheap surplus devices will continue to keep me in action for at least another decade. No competing technology can do any better, as several formats like laserdisk are already so deep in obsolescence that the required hardware can no longer be repaired or obtained.

And as said, all the in-between formats so far have suffered from being of artificially limited utilizability. In the next ten years, there is going to be a war over that. And once the dust settles, then it's time to pick a format, or welcome a format-free new reality.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
For my part, the long lifespan of the VHS tape is sufficient reason not to try out anything new for the time being. The technology continues to be perfectly viable thirty years after its introduction, delivering an image that still borders on the limits of resolution of the display devices - "high definition" offers little improvement in practice, as one would have to purchase an unnecessarily complex and expensive display to enjoy the improvement.

Moreover, off-air VHS is almost hardware-independent: there is a worldwide pool of recording and playing devices that are compatible with everything I have, and this gear can be repaired on the cheap. Or not actually repaired, as some parts are out of production and not worth tinkering with - but caches of "obsolete" spares and dirt-cheap surplus devices will continue to keep me in action for at least another decade. No competing technology can do any better, as several formats like laserdisk are already so deep in obsolescence that the required hardware can no longer be repaired or obtained.

And as said, all the in-between formats so far have suffered from being of artificially limited utilizability. In the next ten years, there is going to be a war over that. And once the dust settles, then it's time to pick a format, or welcome a format-free new reality.

Timo Saloniemi
:guffaw:

So... you're just saying you're too cheap to upgrade.

Everything you've said about VHS is dead wrong. It is not viable, it is not supported and media for it hasn't been produced for the last 5 years. All those blank VHS you see out there are just what's left over from from what was made in advance and by 2009 will be compltetly gone.

DVD in and of itself has far better resolution than that of VHS on standard definition televisions so what's this nonsense about, "delivering an image that still borders on the limits of resolution of the display devices?". Bringing up the LaserDisk is a non-sequitir as the format never caught on period partly because many movies required more than one disk and they were bulky as hell, as opposed to DVD's which have been common since 1997 and indeed have completely replaced the VHS format. Nothing is produced on VHS anymore, period.

To suggest that "'high definition' offers little improvement in practice, as one would have to purchase an unnecessarily complex and expensive display to enjoy the improvement," is disengenuous at best an at worst just ridiculous. Number one, HD destroys Standard Definition with picture and audio and VHS isn't even in that discussion because it's so archaic. High Def media, whether it be Blu Ray or HD DVD is far superior to SD DVD's.

The only people that don't agree are the people that are too cheap to invest so they criticize what they don't understand. The prices have gone down dramtically on HD TV's and they don't cost any more than comparably sized standard definition TV's did 10 years ago (in fact, some are much less expensive). I'm just curious, does your TV still have a dial on it? As far as complexity is concerned, this is the most ignorant assertion of all. One cable... that's it. One cable goes into one end of your media device (DVD player, Video game system, cable box, etc.) and the other goes into your TV (or if you want to get fancy into your receiver andthen into your TV). It's far less complex than the analog options of the past.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but this is just silly. :wtf:

-Shawn :borg:
 
estrea said:
He said Blu-Ray was less stable and fragile. He had experimented with them both. nothing will play on my DVD player??? :confused:
What did he do, endurance tests? Nonsense, just do a google search to find out about all of the problems that HD DVD has had with their discs and their players and then do a search on Blu Ray. AS much as I loved the HD DVD format it had problems. Hell, mine wasn't working right out of the box and required a firmware update. My PS3... no problems... ever. ;)

-Shawn :borg:
 
Everything you've said about VHS is dead wrong. It is not viable, it is not supported and media for it hasn't been produced for the last 5 years. All those blank VHS you see out there are just what's left over from from what was made in advance and by 2009 will be compltetly gone.

Now that I think about it, I haven't even SEEN VHS movies sold in stores in years. Blockbuster did that big thing back in 1999 or 2000 where they destroyed ALL their VHS movies. The only reason you see blank VHS tapes is for people who record home movies and those are about to become obsolete with digital technology.

DVD in and of itself has far better resolution than that of VHS on standard definition televisions so what's this nonsense about, "delivering an image that still borders on the limits of resolution of the display devices?". Bringing up the LaserDisk is a non-sequitir as the format never caught on period partly because many movies required more than one disk and they were bulky as hell, as opposed to DVD's which have been common since 1997 and indeed have completely replaced the VHS format. Nothing is produced on VHS anymore, period.

I don't see how anyone can think that VHS is even in the same ball park as DVD, never less HD. :wtf: Just compare Star Wars on VHS and DVD. The DVD version has 5.1 EX sound,CRYSTAL CLEAR picture quality plus tons of special features.VHS doesn't even compare. That's like trying to compare graphics on video games in the 1980s(pong) with video game graphics today(take your pick).It's just silly.

To suggest that "'high definition' offers little improvement in practice, as one would have to purchase an unnecessarily complex and expensive display to enjoy the improvement," is disengenuous at best an at worst just ridiculous. Number one, HD destroys Standard Definition with picture and audio and VHS isn't even in that discussion because it's so archaic. High Def media, whether it be Blu Ray or HD DVD is far superior to SD DVD's.

As far VHS, it's a stupid argument to compare with HD, but with the comparison of DVD and HD, it does depend on your television. If your television doesn't go above 480 i, it won't make any difference. If you have a High Def T.V that has 1080 p or even 780 p hooked to your blue ray player with an HDMI cord, it's like stepping into another world.

The only people that don't agree are the people that are too cheap to invest so they criticize what they don't understand. The prices have gone down dramtically on HD TV's and they don't cost any more than comparably sized standard definition TV's did 10 years ago (in fact, some are much less expensive). I'm just curious, does your TV still have a dial on it?


:lol: I still remember 50 inch T.Vs from the 80s that cost anywhere between $2000.00 to $5000.00. and they suck compared to my Samsung HD TV which is only 32 inches and cost me less than $1000.00.

As far as complexity is concerned, this is the most ignorant assertion of all. One cable... that's it. One cable goes into one end of your media device (DVD player, Video game system, cable box, etc.) and the other goes into your TV (or if you want to get fancy into your receiver andthen into your TV). It's far less complex than the analog options of the past.

So true. First off...NO STINKING ANTENAE TO MESS WITH! I still remember the day when I had to fidget with rabbit ears to get a clear reception.Second off, everything is clearly labeled in the back with hookups for almost everything. My HD T.V acts as my television,my PS3 and my monitor.All is easily accessable with one click of the "source" button.It don't get more easy that that.
 
I have some Trek on VINYL so there :) Anyone else remember the RCA SelectaVision format. I never owned the player, but the artwork is very '70s and '80s on these so I picked them up a few years ago.
 
ChristopherPike said:
Plenty of us are waiting for that announcement from CBS/Paramount. I bought for the DVD side only and my worry is this... switching to Blu Ray may mean no standard definition release for S2 & S3.

This is of course sad news for all of us. :( :(
 
Everything you've said about VHS is dead wrong. It is not viable, it is not supported and media for it hasn't been produced for the last 5 years.

Well, all visual media that you can watch on your telly is automatically compatible with VHS, as the analog recording system can hijack any signal at the point where it's going to the screen, record it, and then play it again at that point, regardless of the nature of the signal (analog, digital, PAL, NTSC, HD-DVD, digibox brand X or Y, format A or B, whatever).

And since its mechanical complexities are, well, mechanical, it's incredibly fault-tolerant: most problems can be fixed with a screwdriver or a piece of adhesive tape. And no such thing as a software problem can ever exist in a VHS system.

The viability problems are twofold: copies of copies of copies aren't as good as originals, and accessing a specific timepoint requires waiting and physical strain on the recording medium. But many of the modern media don't allow for copies of copies of copies to begin with. And I can live with spending a few minutes rewinding.

One might see it as a problem that nothing is sold prepacked on VHS. But that's a problem only for a certain slice of the clientele. For others, it's a far greater problem that the material that is broadcast cannot be digitally recorded, except on a device that does not allow for transferring forward, or for longtime storage - unless provided with extra gadgets that may quite literally cost ten times more than a comparable VHS system and library.

VHS remains quite practical for recording broadcast material for long term, even though a digital hard drive recorder is a practical and cost-efficient short term recording and playback system. A separate instrument is needed for playing purchased material anyway - again unless significant extra dough is coughed up to obtain a multifunctional system.

To suggest that "'high definition' offers little improvement in practice, as one would have to purchase an unnecessarily complex and expensive display to enjoy the improvement," is disengenuous at best an at worst just ridiculous.

Not really. A good old 50/100 Hz analog set still sells well, again for being just one tenth the price of a system that would do any sort of justice to "high definition". And about 70-80% of sets here are expected to be of that type in 2015 still, at which point the existing stock will wear out - and I'll be ready to swap media. :)

As far as complexity is concerned, this is the most ignorant assertion of all. One cable... that's it. One cable goes into one end of your media device (DVD player, Video game system, cable box, etc.) and the other goes into your TV (or if you want to get fancy into your receiver andthen into your TV). It's far less complex than the analog options of the past.

Doesn't work that way. It has to be one cable that goes into your cluster of media devices, which in turn are connected by a spaghetti of cables. The old analog VCR setup involved antenna-cable-VCR-cable-TV. Modified for digital broadcast, it would become antenna-cable-digibox-cable-VCR-cable-TV (with SCART or similar replacing the original coax where needed).

But for digital recording and playback media, you have to replace the digibox-cable-VHS part of the above system with a combination of (recording) digibox plus separate DVD player or other transferrable media player, which are then cross-connected for plug-and-pray, with all sorts of software compatibility problems looming. The spaghetti itself isn't all that difficult to set up, but not really less difficult than the old coax lines, either. Getting the multicomponent system to coexist peacefully in cyberspace is another ballgame altogether.

When something even roughly comparable to analog VCR and analog TV comes to market in one package (preferably with just one remote) at a price that is even roughly comparable, then we can say we've made a transition. But that would mean integrating the transferrable media player into the whole - and how to do that, when transferrable media standards change every two-three years?

Better to just hook everything up to your computer and purchase suitable software for playing and recording each new format as it emerges and shoves the predecessor out. But then it again becomes an issue of finding a long term storage medium. The VHS library will still be go fifty years from now, as will their player. Any recording made on CD-like optical storage, flash or classic hard drive will be long gone by then, either corrupted or then rendered unreadable by anything except those antique machines they collect at the Library of Congress just in case.

And of course, celluloid film will outlive even magnetic tape... And wood carvings outlive celluloid. It's a compromise between recording density and durability. Too bad that most of today's media settle for practical durability of two years. (Good enough for ENT, perhaps, but I want to enjoy my TOS a bit longer than that!)

Timo Saloniemi
 
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