• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers A long time mystery from ENT might have finally been solved in Discovery

Unimatrix Q

Unimatrix Q

Commodore
Commodore
"Terra Firma, Part 1" implies with the appearance of Time Soldier Yor from the Kelvinverse the possibility that Crewman Daniels in "Cold Front" was also from there.

It would finally explain his cryptic comments about Illinois and Earth:

"TUCKER: And you didn't grow up in Illinois.
DANIELS: Oh, I'm from a place called Illinois, sir. Just not the one you're familiar with.
TUCKER: It's good to know Earth will still be around in nine hundred years.
DANIELS: That depends on how you define Earth."
 
Last edited:
Ríu ríu chíu said:
^ I'm suspecting that not even the writers knew what they meant when they wrote that scene.

In any case, it's all moot now, isn't it? We've seen 32nd-century Earth and it looks completely normal. :shrug:
Click to expand...

There is also the issue that Crewman Daniels called the 22nd century one of the fronts of the Temporal Cold War. The fact that the PU and the Kelvinverse were still united then, with the possibility that both sides could intervene at historical events before the split without any problems, might be another clue that we can't say for sure that this Daniels (or the different versions we might have seen of him) was/were from the Prime Universe.
 
The Time Wars probably utterly defy thinking in terms of "timelines": they would probably result in loose ends, loops and general spaghettifying that is ultimately only settled by going to the root causes and practicing selective genocide there. Any active participant would "afterwards" become a drifter, native to no surviving timeline.

That Earth might be in need of "defining" is a nicely Trekkian thing: so much can happen in that particular universe that it wouldn't be particularly jarring if it turned out Daniels' Earth were

a) a substitute, modeled after Earth when the original was lost
b) a simulation
c) the old place, only radically altered
d) not a planet at all, but still warranting the name
e) something almost but not quite completely different from tea.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
The Time Wars probably utterly defy thinking in terms of "timelines": they would probably result in loose ends, loops and general spaghettifying that is ultimately only settled by going to the root causes and practicing selective genocide there. Any active participant would "afterwards" become a drifter, native to no surviving timeline.

That Earth might be in need of "defining" is a nicely Trekkian thing: so much can happen in that particular universe that it wouldn't be particularly jarring if it turned out Daniels' Earth were

a) a substitute, modeled after Earth when the original was lost
b) a simulation
c) the old place, only radically altered
d) not a planet at all, but still warranting the name
e) something almost but not quite completely different from tea.

Timo Saloniemi
Click to expand...

As Earth looked fairly unchanged in "People of Earth" and was at the same place as before, it might be another clue that Daniels wasn't from the PU and maybe from the KT or another Parallel universe.
 
I'm from London, but I bet a Londoner from 900 years ago would not recognise the place now. The same should apply for Earth, having the Golden gate bridge looking the same is for the TV viewers but in universe makes little sense but it could be 32nd century replica, we still have the pyramids!
 
Nyotarules said:
I'm from London, but I bet a Londoner from 900 years ago would not recognise the place now. The same should apply for Earth, having the Golden gate bridge looking the same is for the TV viewers but in universe makes little sense but it could be 32nd century replica, we still have the pyramids!
Click to expand...

Yeah but such changes for the future are obvious and don't explain the cryptic way Daniels refered to Earth.

If Earth was destroyed or became something unrecognizable in the Kelvinverse otherwise ;)
 
Unimatrix Q said:
Yeah but such changes for the future are obvious and don't explain the cryptic way Daniels refered to Earth.

If Earth was destroyed or became something unrecognizable in the Kelvinverse otherwise ;)
Click to expand...
Earth should be unrecognisable in any reality with a 1000 year difference. The Pacific Ocean might have a new continent stuck in the middle of it populated by billions of people or turned into a large national park
 
Last edited:
Nyotarules said:
Earth should be unrecognisable in any reality with a 1000 year difference. The Pacific ocean might have a new continent stuck in the middle of it populated by billions of people or turned into a large national park
Click to expand...

:techman: I was also disappointed in the way Earth was presented in that episode.
But if we just use all the information we have so far, from what little what we saw it looks like there wasn't enough change to explain how Daniels talked about the planet.

So it seems like if we apply Occam's razor, that the easiest way to explain this discrepancy is that the Daniels from that episode wasn't from the Prime Universe.
 
Unimatrix Q said:
:techman: I was also disappointed in the way Earth was presented in that episode.
But if we just use all the information we have so far, from what little what we saw it looks like there wasn't enough change to explain how Daniels talked about the planet.

So it seems like if we apply Occam's razor, that the easiest way to explain this discrepancy is that the Daniels from that episode wasn't from the Prime Universe.
Click to expand...
They did not show much of Earth, I just recall one tree and San Francisco.That's it.
 
This makes a bit of sense; the TCW is really a Fringe-style Universe war, possibly going all the way back to The Alternative Factor! Its not time travel at all. The only way to mess with the past without screwing up your own future is to mess with an alternate past. Always speculated that the Kelvin was always separate, like the Mirror.... Hrmm.
 
Even back in Enterprise it wasn't really a mystery. Daniels is just being vague because that's just his schtick but also because it's meant to be evocative to both Trip and the audience so their imaginations can run wild with whatever they think the future looks like. Maybe it's Jetsons with a billion Cloud Cities covering the sky or there's a bazillion and one different aliens living on Earth or everyone now lives under the sea. It was never intended to be answered.
 
Phoenix219 said:
This makes a bit of sense; the TCW is really a Fringe-style Universe war, possibly going all the way back to The Alternative Factor! Its not time travel at all. The only way to mess with the past without screwing up your own future is to mess with an alternate past. Always speculated that the Kelvin was always separate, like the Mirror.... Hrmm.
Click to expand...

Continuing my own semi-joke... Would that make Lazarus the Walter bishop that made the door between universes? Haha.
 
Unimatrix Q said:
"Terra Firma, Part 1" implies with the appearance of Time Soldier Yor from the Kelvinverse the possibility that Crewman Daniels in "Cold Front" was also from there.

It would finally explain his cryptic comments about Illinois and Earth:

"TUCKER: And you didn't grow up in Illinois.
DANIELS: Oh, I'm from a place called Illinois, sir. Just not the one you're familiar with.
TUCKER: It's good to know Earth will still be around in nine hundred years.
DANIELS: That depends on how you define Earth."
Click to expand...

This is like, what, the tenth time you've brought this up? And now you're making its own thread for it? And it's not even a 'long time mystery' as you're trying to make it out to be. No Trek fan has been wondering for the last 20 years what Daniels meant by that comment.

Hey, if you think Daniels was from the Kelvin timeline, fine. If you think the Burn was the doing of the Pah Wraiths from DS9, fine. If you think (insert outlandish theory here), fine.

I don't agree, mainly because you're not providing any proof other than some vague lines that you're trying to take out of context and shoehorn in to fit into your pet theory. But it's not against the rules to have pet theories, so theorize away, I suppose. But you seem to not want to hear people telling you your theory is wrong, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep bringing it up.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top