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Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

Honestly, thought the whole thing was over-hyped and under-delivered. Some fun fan service, but the overall thing was pretty flat and didn't do what it should have. And coming out of it, honestly not much changed. Tough to put out the 'big event that changes everything' and then not change much.

A five-part episode didn't feel like it got it's money's worth. And with it's own after show and everything. The CW shows in general are usually pretty light on substance, though, so not overly shocking I guess. Fun enough, but not what they could be. Got sidetracked due to pandemic and whatnot and then started watching old shows, but just remembered I haven;t finished the seasons yet, have 4-5 episodes of each of the shows to get through. Says how gripping the post-COIE storylines were, I guess.
 
I think the writing declined over the past few years.

The fan service was amazing. A 10 out of 10. But I wish the story matched.

Think about Endgame--every major character and quite a few minor ones, had something relevant in that movie.

The fan service cameos should have had a bigger role. To have this event and have it come down to 7 people--all from either Earth 1 or Earth 38, was a let down.
 
My review...

As I suspected/feared, the much-balleyhooed Arrowverse CoIE is pretty wretched. The main lesson from Infinity War - that the villain must be as complex as the heroes, and get as much screen time, is completely ignored. Ergo, even more than last time, there is no real story to be told, and all the cameos and talk of trillions of deaths can't make up for that. What's more, much of the drama is turgid at best - "Paragon of Love" Barry Allen mostly comes off as a twerp, soap opera writing abounds, and while Ruby Rose does have a certain charisma, Batwoman's general shtick is laughable. Meanwhile, Tom Welling somehow makes more of an impression in one power-less, suit-less scene than all of Hoechlin and Routh's Superman-ing put together - doubtless thanks in large part to the fact that he's not made to play second fiddle to a woman who goes by the name "-girl." That's not a knock on Benoist, or female heroes in general, as Caity Lotz's Sarah Lance has been a more compelling badass than Oliver Queen himself for a long time. But, when the franchise expects us to take Bruce Wayne's cousin in a bright pink wig more seriously than Superman himself, it only reduces itself to a sitcom that (mostly) pretends to be drama. And the result is abundant lameness.

The thing is, they could have built a solid crossover around Jon Cryer's Lex Luthor, who, in his hatred for superheroes, has an understandable perspective given all the apocalyptic threats they often seem to cause, and quite literally laugh off in the Superfriends-esque coda. But, that would be too dramatic, I guess? Small wonder, then, that many of the best moments come from the Legends gang/episode, the only show of the bunch that seems to have found a sustainable balance of sitcom-level comedy hijinks and dramatic stakes. Hail Beebo! :p

Overall grade: C-
 
Scout101 said:
Honestly, thought the whole thing was over-hyped and under-delivered.
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but the overall thing was pretty flat and didn't do what it should have. And coming out of it, honestly not much changed. Tough to put out the 'big event that changes everything' and then not change much.
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Agreed.

A five-part episode didn't feel like it got it's money's worth. And with it's own after show and everything. The CW shows in general are usually pretty light on substance, though, so not overly shocking I guess.
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No, not really shocking at all. Only Black Lightning's core plot, characters and "universe" are built on serious sociopolitical issues that its characters are hit with it every day as a matter of being black in America.

Got sidetracked due to pandemic and whatnot and then started watching old shows, but just remembered I haven;t finished the seasons yet, have 4-5 episodes of each of the shows to get through. Says how gripping the post-COIE storylines were, I guess.
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Indeed.

Gaith said:
My review...

As I suspected/feared, the much-balleyhooed Arrowverse CoIE is pretty wretched.
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QFT.

Ergo, even more than last time, there is no real story to be told, and all the cameos and talk of trillions of deaths can't make up for that. What's more, much of the drama is turgid at best - "Paragon of Love" Barry Allen mostly comes off as a twerp, soap opera writing abounds
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Good point.

Meanwhile, Tom Welling somehow makes more of an impression in one power-less, suit-less scene than all of Hoechlin and Routh's Superman-ing put together
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Interesting take, but not too surprising, considering how underwhelming the other actors were in this CW-COIE and in general.

Overall grade: C-
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Yeah, for Berlanti and his cohorts to have spent so many years, generating hundreds of hours of superhero TV and still have their "big event" collapse in such disastrous fashion is the flashing sign above the majority of DC-CW that its showrunners do not get DC.
 
Gaith said:
Meanwhile, Tom Welling somehow makes more of an impression in one power-less, suit-less scene than all of Hoechlin and Routh's Superman-ing put together - doubtless thanks in large part to the fact that he's not made to play second fiddle to a woman who goes by the name "-girl." That's not a knock on Benoist, or female heroes in general, as Caity Lotz's Sarah Lance has been a more compelling badass than Oliver Queen himself for a long time. But, when the franchise expects us to take Bruce Wayne's cousin in a bright pink wig more seriously than Superman himself, it only reduces itself to a sitcom that (mostly) pretends to be drama. And the result is abundant lameness.
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Yeah, saying that's not a knock on female heroes doesn't make it sound any less like a knock on female heroes.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Yeah, for Berlanti and his cohorts to have spent so many years, generating hundreds of hours of superhero TV and still have their "big event" collapse in such disastrous fashion is the flashing sign above the majority of DC-CW that its showrunners do not get DC.
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I think that's true in the movies as well. The writers don't get it.

Christopher said:
Yeah, saying that's not a knock on female heroes doesn't make it sound any less like a knock on female heroes.
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I read it as more of a knock on the writers and their mistreatment of certain heroes.
 
Christopher said:
Yeah, saying that's not a knock on female heroes doesn't make it sound any less like a knock on female heroes.
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This is misquoting. I said it's not a knock on female heroes in general. I don't care what gender you are, a Bat-vigilante outfit that features a long and brightly colored wig looks laughable in live-action, and any character wearing it therefore cannot be taken seriously. Nor does it make much dramatic sense for a hero with an adult-named moniker to repeatedly admit to being weaker than a hero with a child-named moniker. It's fantasy, so, if the writers want that to be the case, they can, but that doesn't make it compelling. But, these are details. The main point is that these scripts are horrendous. ;)
 
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Finished the rewatch and read the comic. I think they may need to address the comic fate of Wally on Flash.
 
Gaith said:
Meanwhile, Tom Welling somehow makes more of an impression in one power-less, suit-less scene than all of Hoechlin and Routh's Superman-ing put together
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I agree with most of your post, but I thought Routh was great as Superman. Especially when he spoke about hope and not giving up.
Welling was also great, too bad they didn't want Rosenbaum
 
USS Firefly said:
I agree with most of your post, but I thought Routh was great as Superman. Especially when he spoke about hope and not giving up.
Welling was also great, too bad they didn't want Rosenbaum
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They did. He either said no, or he couldn't schedule it
 
Christopher said:
Yes, that's what Kirk Prime was referring to. And I talked about it in this thread just over 2 weeks ago.

Anyway, Wally's fate in the comic was presumably undone when the universe was rebooted.
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Was it? I guess that IS their out. There are quite a few questions.

Earth Prime doesn't seem to simply be a depository of Earths 38, 1, and Jefferson's Earth.

It seems like a completely different Earth, and our people were deposited there.

Or, were they completely different people, infused with the memories of their Earth 1 counterparts?

Let's start with Kara, who woke up from the Crisis as if she was dreaming. Presumably, other paragons had the same experience.

Everyone who wasn't a paragon lived their entire lives not knowing that anything was different. Were they different people? Seems like they didn't even have a crisis.

Jonn was able to wake people up. How could that be possible?

If they were woken up, do they completely lose their memories of Earth Prime?

Or do they have both sets of memories?

If they are different people--dopplegangers, then the Antimonitor did win and everyone they ever knew is dead. If they don't retain their pre-Jonn memories, which seems possible since Superman didn't know he had 2 sons, then Jonn is killing the Earth Prime person and replacing them with their pre-crisis counterpart.

If they are the same people, how could they not remember the crisis?
 
Ovation said:
Goddammit. Why won't these *^&&%^&#%)'s keep the politics out of the comicbook character world.:scream::scream::scream:


;) (because, well, someone had to)
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Politics has been a part of the comic book character world for a long, long time. Might have taken a break in the fifties but returned strong with Lee/Kirby. It was just allegorical or fictionalized.
 
theenglish said:
Politics has been a part of the comic book character world for a long, long time. Might have taken a break in the fifties but returned strong with Lee/Kirby. It was just allegorical or fictionalized.
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Not like this--this is more of a recent trend, and this is also why CW shows have taken a beating in the ratings. Demonizing half the country is not smart. Nor is using your job to shill for candidates and one party.
 
theenglish said:
Politics has been a part of the comic book character world for a long, long time. Might have taken a break in the fifties but returned strong with Lee/Kirby. It was just allegorical or fictionalized.
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Comics were often political in the '50s too, if only in that they toed the party line of being rabidly anti-Communist (like the "Commie-Smasher" version of Captain America that was retconned later on into a mentally ill impostor). Even the Comics Code's insistence that comics heroes must be wholesome supporters of police and government authority was a political statement. Protest of the status quo is political, but so is endorsement of it, especially if that endorsement is mandated by the state or done out of fear of punishment by the state.
 
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