Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x04 - "Forget Me Not"

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't know what the big rush is. Saru should give them a week off. Probably should have stayed on Earth for a spell.

Wanting answers.

Sure, everyone wants answers... but you're going to need an alert crew to find them so fix them first.

That's logical and practical and not addressing the emotional need that is presented within the story.

I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there should have been a mostly Earth-bound episode. So far, each episode has been heavily plot driven (albeit with character moments). A character-driven episode would be mostly welcome at this point, in my opinion. Furthermore, they could have done more to give a sense of what the mental health needs of the crew are. As portrayed in the last episode, the crews problems are largely ascribed to not getting enough R&R. R&R is not a panacea for mental health problems. People can still feel stress after taking rest. Indeed, it could cast Detmer's problems more starkly if she were seeing some people moving on, others not.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

And their reactions around the table reflect that. Each of them is caught up in their own little world, each trying to deal with the hardship and trauma of their recent experiences in their own, dysfunctional way. Stamets is an egocentrist, so of course he takes offense. Oyo is worried for her friend, so she takes sides. Saru looks horrified, either because his plan to bring the crew together to reconnect is failing spectacularly....

That's a great observation. Instead of all reacting in some uniform "correct" way, they more realistically reacted in very different ways -- and ways consistent wit the charactacters.

I found that nuance to be particularly well done by the writers. They could have taken the "BermanTrek" way out and have the crew at the table all be instantly enlightened about the issue of PTSD and all come to Detmers's emotional aid and all tell her that they are there for her.

Instead they took the more realistic approach where -- as you indicated -- Stamets took offense, because that's one of his MOs; Owo confusedly tried to help her friend but had no idea what to do; Saru might have had an inkling about Detmer's issues, but he might see it as more of a symptom of a larger problem on the ship, not just a problem with one individual; and Culber, as a trained doctor, likely understood it best.

The others did what I likely would have done -- just sit uncomfortably and quietly with a "what just happened?" feeling.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there should have been a mostly Earth-bound episode. So far, each episode has been heavily plot driven (albeit with character moments). A character-driven episode would be mostly welcome at this point, in my opinion. Furthermore, they could have done more to give a sense of what the mental health needs of the crew are. As portrayed in the last episode, the crews problems are largely ascribed to not getting enough R&R. R&R is not a panacea for mental health problems. People can still feel stress after taking rest. Indeed, it could cast Detmer's problems more starkly if she were seeing some people moving on, others not.

No where did I say it was unreasonable. I simply feel, and relate to, that sense of eagerness to try to find out information. I feel that is in character, and feels very character driven, so maybe that's why I don't have an issue with it. I'm not just wanting to move on with the plot but feel like the characters are still trying to find a place they feel that they fit.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

No where did I say it was unreasonable.

And I am not suggesting otherwise. I am not negating what you wrote, but trying to add a different dimension to the conversation.

 

[fireproof78]

And I am not suggesting otherwise. I am not negating what you wrote, but trying to add a different dimension to the conversation.

I think that there is a balance between character and plot driven, but I don't feel like moving on from Earth is necessarily plot drive, or is a mutual balance of the two. In other words, it felt like a character decision to drive on to find answers.

 

[Yanks]

That's logical and practical and not addressing the emotional need that is presented within the story.

What?

 

[fireproof78]

What?

That the crew has a need to find the Federation. It isn't just a matter of "Oh, hey, we're on Earth so lets take a break." It felt to me that they were pushing onward because there was a deep, profound, emotional need to report in.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think that there is a balance between character and plot driven, but I don't feel like moving on from Earth is necessarily plot drive, or is a mutual balance of the two. In other words, it felt like a character decision to drive on to find answers.

The need to move on is driven by the desire to contact the memory of Senna Tal, no?

Almost every episode has been Discovery's crew arriving at a problem to solve. This is strongly indicative of plot-driven writing. It doesn't preclude character development.

 

[fireproof78]

The need to move on is driven by the desire to contact the memory of Senna Tal, no?

Almost every episode has been Discovery's crew arriving at a problem to solve. This is strongly indicative of plot-driven writing. It doesn't preclude character development.

Again, not disagreeing but more seeing it as character driven.

 

[Jadeb]

That's a great observation. Instead of all reacting in some uniform "correct" way, they more realistically reacted in very different ways -- and ways consistent wit the charactacters.

I found that nuance to be particularly well done by the writers. They could have taken the "BermanTrek" way out and have the crew at the table all be instantly enlightened about the issue of PTSD and all come to Detmers's emotional aid and all tell her that they are there for her.

Instead they took the more realistic approach where -- as you indicated -- Stamets took offense, because that's one of his MOs; Owo confusedly tried to help her friend but had no idea what to do; Saru might have had an inkling about Detmer's issues, but he might see it as more of a symptom of a larger problem on the ship, not just a problem with one individual; and Culber, as a trained doctor, likely understood it best.

The others did what I likely would have done -- just sit uncomfortably and quietly with a "what just happened?" feeling.

I think I’d have noticed it less had Culber and Saru not been so acutely aware of the potential mental-health effects earlier in the episode. That’s why they’re having the dinner, after all. But Culber chases after Stamets and Saru says nothing. I think a diversity of reactions around the table is good and realistic, but the one realistic reaction I found missing was “What’s going on with Detmer? She doesn’t seem OK.” ’Cause she clearly didn’t seem OK.

Hopefully they follow up on it later.

 

[Mygia]

Just logged in to say: best Disco episode so far!

 

[cultcross]

That the crew has a need to find the Federation. It isn't just a matter of "Oh, hey, we're on Earth so lets take a break." It felt to me that they were pushing onward because there was a deep, profound, emotional need to report in.

Indeed, especially since Earth was not what they hoped/expected. They are scrabbling for something familiar, hence the tree scene in People of Earth. They didn't find it, so they went looking for it. I've found this season very character driven so far; one of my favourite things about it, actually.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

What?

Their emotional goal of finding Earth was likely not just about finding Earth, but about reconnecting with Federation. They got to Earth only to find it is no longer the beating heart of the Federation, and thus they must have suffered an emotional letdown. The way to re-energizer themselves emotionally is likely getting back to the business of what they set out to do in the first place -- find the Federation.

It won't be easy, as seen by the tensions at Saru's dinner (it wouldn't be a drama if it were easy), and the PTSD symptoms Detmer and likely others among the whole crew are facing by being displaced from everything they knew. However, Saru likey thinks (and I agree) that coming together for the common purpose of finding the Federation is the best way to help the crew feel connected to their new circumstances.

EDIT TO ADD: It is simultaneously plot driven AND character-driven. The plot (and plot-of-the-week) is used as a device to explore what the characters are feeling and thinking. Adira could have learned of Senna Tal's memories in a very straightforward plot-driven manner without having the (excellent) exploration of her relationship with Gray.

But thankfully the resolution of that plot point was presented to us by using a character-driven story.

 

[Yanks]

That the crew has a need to find the Federation. It isn't just a matter of "Oh, hey, we're on Earth so let's take a break." It felt to me that they were pushing onward because there was a deep, profound, emotional need to report in.

For once, (finally) there isn't the "universe in peril" type event going on. The Federation has been gone since the burn, waiting a week to allow your crew to adjust to a different universe and see to themselves isn't unreasonable at all. I think it's a judgment flaw in Saru. He's too wooshie wooshie, touchy-feely... probably why he was passed over by Burnham on the Shenzhou for the first officer position.

 

[fireproof78]

For once, (finally) there isn't the "universe in peril" type event going on. The Federation has been gone since the burn, waiting a week to allow your crew to adjust to a different universe and see to themselves isn't unreasonable at all. I think it's a judgment flaw in Saru. He's too wooshie wooshie, touchy-feely... probably why he was passed over by Burnham on the Shenzhou for the first officer position.

Cultcross answered it better than I:

Indeed, especially since Earth was not what they hoped/expected. They are scrabbling for something familiar, hence the tree scene in People of Earth. They didn't find it, so they went looking for it. I've found this season very character driven so far; one of my favourite things about it, actually.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Hopefully they follow up on it later.

They already did begin the follow-up with Culber talking to Detmer later on in the episode, letting her know that he is there for her to help her through it. I'm guessing that will carry on to the next episode and probably beyond.

 

[SG-17]

I'm thinking Zora lied to Craft about being adrift for 1000 years in order to prevent others from knowing they time traveled.

 

[Mr Awe]

A play on words. I've been watching too much Election Coverage the last few days. You know how there are "swing voters"? I adopted the term and modified it.

You have posters who are hardcore pro-Discovery (like me), posters who are hardcore anti-Discovery, and then posters who are "in the middle". The show can gain them or lose them, depending on what it does. This episode has a lot of those swayable "in the middle" posters batting for it and liking it quite a bit. If it moves the middle, then you know you have a winner on your hands.

Interesting. I like the term and analogy. Interestingly, I'm generally pro-Discovery. But this particular episode didn't work for me.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Interesting. I like the term and analogy. Interestingly, I'm generally pro-Discovery. But this particular episode didn't work for me.

And I lean anti-Disco and thought it was fucking brilliant.

Hence @Lord Garth point.

 

[Odo]

Fantastic. Loved Culber in this episode, and everyone did a great job I thought. Trill was beautiful.

Although I do think it's messed up for marketing to promote a trans actor in Star Trek, only to have that character killed off in the same episode.

One thing that this episode did very well was balance it's A and B stories really well. That's what makes it remind me of Berman Trek era and more specifically of Michael Piller, who if I'm remembering correctly advocated for that kind of storytelling on TNG.

It also reminded me of DS9 in particular - nuanced exploration into an alien culture, which is neither valorized or demonized; interpersonal conflict that makes sense and doesn't feel forced; characterization of secondary recurring characters.

I thought season two was not bad but had many missteps - so far, this is shaping up to be my favorite season of Trek since DS9 Season 6.