No Tiimeships?

[ED-209]

So we know in the 29th century they had time ships, did not a single one survive the Burn? Even if one didn't, did no where have the resources to make even a crude one? Sure that would be against the temporal prime directive and there was some line about it been illegal but given the circumstances...

 

[yenny]

Of course there are time ships. Who going to enforce the law if someone is illegal time traveling?
But it's not illegal for someone in the pass to travel to the future.

 

[Vger23]

I hope that they aren't talking about it because they realize it doesn't matter and isn't important to the narrative.

 

[ED-209]

I hope that they aren't talking about it because they realize it doesn't matter and isn't important to the narrative.

They could prevent the burn.

 

[DaveyNY]

They could prevent the burn.

... or been the ones who caused it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They could prevent the burn.

Not the story being told. Somewhere that story might be being told, but so far not on Discovery.

 

[Vger23]

Not the story being told. Somewhere that story might be being told, but so far not on Discovery.

Right.

Additionally....

Everything, anytime, ever could have been prevented in Star Trek due to time travel. Kirk could have used a slingshot or the Guardian to save Spock and David Marcus. Picard could have gone back a day later in the Nexus and prevented Kirk from having to die punching Soran in a desert somewhere. The Borg could go back in time anytime they want to assimilate Earth...not just at that point in FC.

The list is almost endless.

Let's not over-think things here.

 

[Phily B]

It is entirely possible that "time ships" were really rare and very expensive, as well as being very regulated, Starfleet/Federation could have had an entire division dedicated to them and still only have a handful of ships. And they seemingly still used Dilithium for standard travel outside of time, so you end up losing all of them to the burn, it becomes a big issue. Not to mention that they seemingly are more about defensive wars, rather than going back and making things ideal for the Federation every time shit goes wrong. If the burn wasn't the result of time travel, it'd be against any kind of directive we know about.

It's been a while since I saw all those episodes, but there is plenty for the writers to work around them.

 

[Vger23]

I think it would be a good thing, just to soften the fan need to deeply understand the "why's" associated with things, to perhaps mention a little more on the subject other than "time travel is outlawed now." But, I have a feeling the producers feel that one line in the season opener was designed to subtly tell us "hey....we're not going there, so don't worry about it."

Otherwise, if there IS going to be a timeship...it better look like this or I will riot:

 

[fireproof78]

The reason I don't like time travel is the inevitable question of "Well, we should go back and fix X." Eventually that's the solution to everything and no matter what the catastrophe could have been avoided.

But, it's not very dramatic.

 

[Dukhat]

... or been the ones who caused it.

Yep, since the two times we saw the time cops, they were responsible for the problems that they were sent to fix.

I don’t put much stock in time cops actually being good at their job.

 

[Christopher]

Book specifically said that all time travel mechanisms were outlawed and destroyed after the Temporal Wars. Which seems to mesh with ENT: "Storm Front" and the 31st-century Agent Daniels being involved at the resolution of the Temporal Cold War after the Na'kuhl turned it hot. By the time the Burn happened, whatever timeships had previously been in use by the Federation or others had been wiped out, which is why nobody undid it.

Sure, it's theoretically possible that some timeship from further in the past, or the far future, or some other part of the universe unaffected by the ban, could show up. But it seems clear enough that the reason the writers made a point of declaring time travel defunct in the season premiere was not only to explain why the Burn wasn't undone, but to specifically to say to the audience, "No, we're not going to do a 'Year of Hell' time-travel reset button, and this isn't a how-do-we-get-home story like the Mirror Universe arc. This is the permanent status quo of the show from now on." So I doubt we'll see any such story.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I still believe Time Travel to be of more value to remain in existence and to monitor the time stream from the past to the future with your own agency checking back to make sure everything is ok.

This would allow you to make sure the UFP will truly live on for thousand's of years beyond today.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

B By the time the Burn happened, whatever timeships had previously been in use by the Federation or others had been wiped out, which is why nobody undid it.

They shouldn't have had to wait for the Burn to actually happen before undoing it

I mean, this is TIME TRAVEL after all. Temporal agencies that existed in the pre-Burn times should have known that the Burn was coming and acted accordingly.

So why didn't they?

 

[Christopher]

I still believe Time Travel to be of more value to remain in existence and to monitor the time stream from the past to the future with your own agency checking back to make sure everything is ok.

This would allow you to make sure the UFP will truly live on for thousand's of years beyond today.

In theory, but it also has enormous dangers attached to it. It's not implausible that in the wake of the Temporal Wars, it would've been decided that the harm of time travel outweighed the good. That isn't necessarily objectively true, but it's a plausible overreaction in the wake of such a thing. (Not unlike the overreaction of banning genetic engineering for fear of another Khan.)

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

In theory, but it also has enormous dangers attached to it. It's not implausible that in the wake of the Temporal Wars, it would've been decided that the harm of time travel outweighed the good. That isn't necessarily objectively true, but it's a plausible overreaction in the wake of such a thing. (Not unlike the overreaction of banning genetic engineering for fear of another Khan.)

I agree, the banning of ____ because fear of ____ is fundamentally dumb and not very progressive or open minded.

Just because there was one Temporal War, doesn't mean Time Travel can't have good uses.

Same with Nuclear Power after the A-Bomb was used.

Everything is dependent on how you use it. I sure as hell am not going to let "Fear" decide my daily actions and not going to let it over-ride common sense and long term outlook.

 

[fireproof78]

In theory, but it also has enormous dangers attached to it. It's not implausible that in the wake of the Temporal Wars, it would've been decided that the harm of time travel outweighed the good. That isn't necessarily objectively true, but it's a plausible overreaction in the wake of such a thing. (Not unlike the overreaction of banning genetic engineering for fear of another Khan.)

That does seem to be the way. If it works, we never speak of it again. If it doesn't work then we ban it for forever.

I agree, the banning of ____ because fear of ____ is fundamentally dumb and not very progressive or open minded.

Just because there was one Temporal War, doesn't mean Time Travel can't have good uses.

Same with Nuclear Power after the A-Bomb was used.

Everything is dependent on how you use it.

That's very logical, but assumes much about how the Federation will react. In this instance, like Christopher noted, the Federation tends to make large bans regardless of usefulness. It isn't always progressive.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That does seem to be the way. If it works, we never speak of it again. If it doesn't work then we ban it for forever.

Imagine what Star Trek could be if we take what works, and expand upon it and never ban anything.

The amount of progress we could have.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The point being conveyed to the viewer was, they're not going to undo this with time travel, it's the status quo. Sure other time travellers can access the future and presumably make new time machines (and Boreth is presumably still out there with it's time crystals) but they're not Discovery's season 3 story.

There also could be all kinds of time locks and fixed points and temporal shields and whatever babble devices to prevent time travel being used in the 32nd century.

 

[fireproof78]

Imagine what Star Trek could be if we take what works, and expand upon it and never ban anything.

The amount of progress we could have.

Certainly.

But that's not Star Trek as presented.