Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

[Non Sync]

Joel Gray had some great lines in Remo Williams:

Chiun: I do not wear glasses so that I may see. I wear glasses so that I may see…more.

Remo Williams: And there are times when I could really kill you.
Chiun: Good! We will practice that after dinner.

Remo: How old are you? I mean really, you are old, now aren't you?
Chiun: For an apricot, yes. For a head of lettuce, even more so. For a mountain, I have not even begun in years. For a man, I am just right.

Chiun: Fear is just a feeling. You feel hot. You feel hungry. You feel angry. You feel afraid. Fear can never kill you.

Chiun: You move like a pregnant yak!

Chiun: [having just sprinted across the surface of a lake] You must run "very" fast.

Remo: Chiun, you're incredible!
Chiun: No! I am better than that.

 

[JoeZhang]

The actual books are even funnier - I want to say Greg Cox read a lot of them and we discussed this before but I am hazy.

The first couple are semi-serious and then they just make them more and more silly.

A running sub-plot is that Chiun is really into "my beautiful dramas" which are daytime soaps. What they do in a lot of the books is he will be watching a soap and some bad guys will burst in looking for Remo.

They get between him and the TV and so he horrifically slaughters them...

Remo then gets angry because he had to clean up the body parts...

There is another where someone tries to kill Remo with a c**k-ring and he uses his training to break it...

 

[JD]

After I read the book, I thought if we saw The Weirding Way on screen, it would be kind of wuxia kind of thing.

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[Shaka Zulu]

Joel Gray had some great lines in Remo Williams:

Chiun: I do not wear glasses so that I may see. I wear glasses so that I may see…more.

Which is a change from the novels, as Chiun was disdainful of the need for glasses in one novel, saying to Remo that the human eye can be trained to overcome such difficulties with Sinanju.

 

[Reverend]

The weirding way isn't supposed to be some flashy martial arts dance. It's terrifyingly fast and precise muscle control. Like, "already disembowelled with a kick before you even realised she started to move" fast and precise.

 

[wayoung]

Gotta agree with Reverend here. It's the expression of a mind with complete and absolute control over every muscle fibre. I don't think any existing martial art or film can be compared to it, because it's simply not humanly possible. Impossibly fast and precise, miniscule movements with the users high level of perception allowing them to practically see and adapt to any opponents attacks before the attacker is even aware they are making them.

Whereas I'd say the Atreides are flashy and artistic. The Harkonnens are about intimidation, size and brute force. The Fremen and sardauker are all about efficiency.

Then there is Paul, who is pretty much all of the above PLUS he literally does know what his opponents will do next.

 

[FPAlpha]

I don't think they'll go on full superhero level with moves faster than they eye can follow all the time- not in the age of superhero movies as the market is saturated with it.

I do expect them to mix it up with some cool martial arts choreography and limited moments of superhuman speed when they want to land the "killing blow" - that should be enough to show the superiority of the Bene Gesserit combat technique. It's not like Miles Teg who moved at near Flash speed

 

[wayoung]

No, I say impossibly because they have control over every muscle fibre in a way that's impossible for us. They are still bound by the limits of those muscles, which, while strong, aren't superhuman - or even stronger than today's muscles. For the Bene Gesserot, with their focus on physical attractiveness, their actual muscle strength is much less than super human. No doubt around Rebecca Fergusons actual strength levels.

 

[Reverend]

Exactly. Like I said it's speed and precise control. Martial arts have distinctive styles and forms that are designed in one way or another to make it easier for the muscles to flow from one move to the next while directing force and balancing the centre of mass, with each style having it's own balance of emphasis.
Bene Gesserits can flat out bypass the need for most of that since they consciously have total independent control over each and every single muscle in their bodies. Combine that ability and knowledge with their equally precise skills of observing human behaviour (involuntary or otherwise) and they can anticipate moves and detect feints at the point of decision before the opponent's muscles have even gotten the message.

Try and throw a punch at a Bene Gesserit and they'll have you flat on your back before you've even finished the windup.
It's simple, direct and astonishingly quick, but by no means "super human."

Whereas I'd say the Atreides are flashy and artistic. The Harkonnens are about intimidation, size and brute force. The Fremen and sardauker are all about efficiency.

The only addendum I'd add to that is that sardaukar focus more on fighting in groups, braking down into groups of threes crouched back-to back when out numbered and moving in the envelop when in a position of strength. Very interdependent and regimented. Whereas the seem more like they'd each fight as individuals and don't need to think about the coordinating with a collective as sietch living has made that second nature.

 

[JD]

Even if that's how it was in the books, I could see them changing to a more straight forward martial art for the movie. Having a big dramatic, fight scene is a lot more exiting than someone taking people out in an instant.

 

[wayoung]

Even if that's how it was in the books, I could see them changing to a more straight forward martial art for the movie. Having a big dramatic, fight scene is a lot more exiting than someone taking people out in an instant.

They already tried sonic guns and teleportation, might be nice to see them try it as it is in the books.

 

[JD]

Yeah, but at least a form of martial arts is closer to the books than a gun.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, but at least a form of martial arts is closer to the books than a gun.

And yet like the gun, kinda misses the whole point.

 

[FPAlpha]

So how exactly would that translate actually onto the screen? How do BG move and strike in combat?

One strike one hit and done? Above average speed and precision? Hitting certain key vulnerable points of the human body?

Sounds exactly like a master martial artist - Bruce Lee level and above don't it?

Honestly you all go about muscle control this and that but how does that visually translate onto the screen when a Bene Gesserit or someone trained by them goes into close combat? I'm honestly asking because i can't imagine it looking like anything besides some truly efficient martial arts / military style close combat with insane precision and timing.

 

[wayoung]

So how exactly would that translate actually onto the screen? How do BG move and strike in combat?

One strike one hit and done? Above average speed and precision? Hitting certain key vulnerable points of the human body?

Sounds exactly like a master martial artist - Bruce Lee level and above don't it?

Honestly you all go about muscle control this and that but how does that visually translate onto the screen when a Bene Gesserit or someone trained by them goes into close combat? I'm honestly asking because i can't imagine it looking like anything besides some truly efficient martial arts / military style close combat with insane precision and timing.

No idea. You'd need to get a pro fight chronographer and an expert in kinestheology together to work it out.

 

[JD]

And yet like the gun, kinda misses the whole point.

But it's a lot more exciting than the people who use it taking their opponents out in one hit. This is a big blockbuster, so they're going to want their big fight scenes to last more than a few seconds.

 

[wayoung]

But it's a lot more exciting than the people who use it taking their opponents out in one hit. This is a big blockbuster, so they're going to want their big fight scenes to last more than a few seconds.

Jessica has one fight. With Stilgar. In that fight she literally does as is described - incapacitates him before he knows what is happening, which is the sole reason he welcomes her and Paul to the tribe.

Paul's has several fights, but none where he can "one hit" his opponents. The ornithopter fight can be expanded for sure, he's physically compromised and it's his first real fight. Jamis he is inexperienced in combat and shield conditioned. Feyd, while not trained in Bene Gesserit combat, is still subject to absolutely superb combat training on par with what Paul received.

The other uses of the "weirding way" are the Fremen, recent trainees, using it in battles.

There aren't any scenes like you have above, where the combat being fast would be uncinematic, with the already noted exception of Jessica/Stilgar, where her instantly incapacitating him is the point.

 

[Reverend]

But it's a lot more exciting than the people who use it taking their opponents out in one hit. This is a big blockbuster, so they're going to want their big fight scenes to last more than a few seconds.

That depends entirely on how it's staged and presented. If done well a fight ending quickly can both illustrate just how outmatched an opponent is and subvert expectations. Fights aren't just there for spectacle, to be of value they have to tell a story. In this case the story is "holy crap that person is insanely skilled".

 

[JD]

Yeah, that can work once or twice, but it can get repetitive if they do it every time a character gets into a fight.

 

[Reverend]

As Wayoung just laid out, that only happens in the story once or twice. Dune really isn't an action packed adventure story. There's like three one-on-one duels in the whole book. Everything else either happens off-screen or is an out and out melee.