2239 Discovery Shuttles used in 3188?!?!?! - Trekyards Analysis

[Campe]

In regards to pages of BS, sometimes you find a design that works and you don’t fucking change things.

Or...

It’s a TV show. With a budget. Maybe it’s a big budget but this particular shuttle was not the focus of the shot. It’s a background ship. We are Star Trek fans. There are HUNDREDS of things that we either ignore or come up with rationale for why things that don’t logically work work. Someone likes antiques. Maybe the shuttle is a retro version of a classic design. Maybe it’s the only ship someone can afford. Come up with a leap of logic. Some people should remember how much doesn’t actually work in TEH CANNON!!!!!11!!!one1!!!

Yet here we are 11 pages into this thread.

 

[cooleddie74]

There are people who think that the NX-01 and the NCC-1701 shouldn't look so similar being a century apart and separated by generations of engineering advances and what ship designers learned in the years after Earth became a founding member of the Federation. One's an Earth ship from 2151 and the other's a Federation ship from 2245. So...yeah.

 

[fireproof78]

In regards to pages of BS, sometimes you find a design that works and you don’t fucking change things.

Or...

It’s a TV show. With a budget. Maybe it’s a big budget but this particular shuttle was not the focus of the shot. It’s a background ship. We are Star Trek fans. There are HUNDREDS of things that we either ignore or come up with rationale for why things that don’t logically work work. Someone likes antiques. Maybe the shuttle is a retro version of a classic design. Maybe it’s the only ship someone can afford. Come up with a leap of logic. Some people should remember how much doesn’t actually work in TEH CANNON!!!!!11!!!one1!!!

Yet here we are 11 pages into this thread.

That was old Trek. In new Trek everything must be explained.

 

[NCC-73515]

They totally addressed this debate in the new episode!

Spoiler

"Your vessel's configuration and metallurgy suggests 23rd to 25th century construction. I find it quite odd that it remains in service." - "There is no need to replace that which is not broken."

 

[Campe]

That was old Trek. In new Trek everything must be explained.

Fuck that noise.

 

[The Wormhole]

I find it interesting that there are as many people taking issue with this as there are. One of the few times when Star Trek actually did slip up with reusing ship designs was when they copied the Akira class as the NX-01. When making the hero ship of a series, there is definitely enough in the budget to make a new design, not to mention it is rather unimaginative to take a ship design from one era and stick it in an earlier era with only retro modifications. Can you imagine if someone stuck a modern day aircraft carrier built with wood in the 18th century? Basically the same thing.

Yet, back when Enterprise was on the air, you had many contorting themselves with explanations about maybe the Akira was intentionally influenced by the retro design, even going so far as to cite the resemblance between the USS Pasteur from AGT and the Daedalus class. Yet now those same people are getting worked up over a shuttle being recycled, despite the fact that Star Trek has always had a long history of recycling ships anyway. So what is it about this shuttle that makes it so egregious that it's design can still exist when the resemblance between the Akira and the NX-01 was okay?

And yes, I am aware that reusing the Akira design for the NX-01 was forced by the studio and that it took a lot of arm twisting just to get the retro modifications done to make it look like it belonged in the pre-TOS era.

 

[BillJ]

Yet, back when Enterprise was on the air, you had many contorting themselves with explanations about maybe the Akira was intentionally influenced by the retro design...

You had just as many, if not more, critical of them reusing the design. This was the place I first heard the term “Akiraprise”. Difference is, one is a hero ship, the other a piece of flotsam that was on screen for three seconds and used to make a shot look busy. People were also critical of the reuse of the Klingon D-7 in “Unexpected”.

 

[Campe]

You had just as many, if not more, critical of them reusing the design. This was the place I first heard the term “Akiraprise”. Difference is, one is a hero ship, the other a piece of flotsam that was on screen for three seconds and used to make a shot look busy.

As much as I didn't care about "Akiraprise" or this shuttle, design lineage is a thing. Is the NX-01 possibly a little too close to the Akira? Maybe. But it bothers me about as much as the original Enterprise 1701 and the 1701-E basically have the same orientation. In other words, not so much.

 

[BillJ]

As much as I didn't care about "Akiraprise" or this shuttle, design lineage is a thing. Is the NX-01 possibly a little too close to the Akira? Maybe. But it bothers me about as much as the original Enterprise 1701 and the 1701-E basically have the same orientation. In other words, not so much.

I am not to stressed or stressed at all over the shuttle in “That Hope is You”, I was more critical of its reuse and other Discovery assets in “Children of Mars”.

I tend to think there is a difference in how assets are used. A three second background shot is harmless. Front and center can kill immersion depending on context.

 

[The Wormhole]

You had just as many, if not more, critical of them reusing the design. This was the place I first heard the term “Akiraprise”. Difference is, one is a hero ship, the other a piece of flotsam that was on screen for three seconds and used to make a shot look busy. People were also critical of the reuse of the Klingon D-7 in “Unexpected”.

Oh, I know. Truth was, at the time I was one of the more vocal complainers about the "Akiraprise." But, I remember one of the popular defenses was "the Akira was just some background ship, what does it matter if they reused that as a hero ship?" And now, here we have shuttle which literally was used in the background being of a reused design and we've somehow gotten an eleven page thread out of something you need to freeze frame and magnify just to notice.

I was more critical of its reuse and other Discovery assets in “Children of Mars”.

I've been back and forth on those. At the time Children of Mars aired, I didn't care at all. It was a brief twenty second shot, it was obviously easier to use ship designs they had on file than it was to create new ships for this. But then, Children of Mars does use footage of the Mars attack directly from Picard itself, and when the episode which showed the attack aired there's even an establishing shot of Mars orbit showing new ships, so I kind of wondered why they didn't just use that shot in the Short Trek. Then the next episode has a flashback scene of Picard and Raffi talking about using mothballed ships to assist in the evacuation creating an effective explanation for why we see Disco ship designs in Children of Mars.

 

[Campe]

I am not to stressed or stressed at all over the shuttle in “That Hope is You”, I was more critical of its reuse and other Discovery assets in “Children of Mars”.

I tend to think there is a difference in how assets are used. A three second background shot is harmless. Front and center can kill immersion depending on context.

I didn't have a problem with either. As it comes to CoM, as Star Trek fans, we have contorted ourselves in so many different ways to make things that ultimately don't make sense to connect everything together. There are explanations that can work: Starfleet pulled the particular ships out of mothballs for the Romulan relocation. They're using an old design that they can build quickly and have a lot of space in for crew quarters. I could come up with a dozen ideas. None of it really matters to me though as the ships for me are secondary, probably even tertiary. I totally respect that I do not speak for all Trek fans there.

 

[BillJ]

As it comes to CoM, as Star Trek fans, we have contorted ourselves in so many different ways to make things that ultimately don't make sense to connect everything together.

I can contort with the best of them. But in the moment when I’m engaged, oddballs like what we got in CoM can briefly throw me out of a story. Not always, context comes into play.

 

[Campe]

I can contort with the best of them. But in the moment when I’m engaged, oddballs like what we got in CoM can briefly throw me out of a story. Not always, context comes into play.

Totally fair.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Yeah it's amazing how instead of making a boring '80s style drama show or '80s style sitcom "in space"; Alex kurtzman wants to return Star Trek to what made it fun, enjoyable, and interesting to watch in the first place. The less preaching we get from a 50-plus year old man the better.

actually abrams trek was not like Genes trek at all. The dramatic elements were totally stripped for Star Wars style action. So abrams trek is more like Star Trek Wars. Same with Kurtzmans.

 

[NCC-73515]

I find it interesting that there are as many people taking issue with this as there are. One of the few times when Star Trek actually did slip up with reusing ship designs was when they copied the Akira class as the NX-01. When making the hero ship of a series, there is definitely enough in the budget to make a new design, not to mention it is rather unimaginative to take a ship design from one era and stick it in an earlier era with only retro modifications. Can you imagine if someone stuck a modern day aircraft carrier built with wood in the 18th century? Basically the same thing.

Yet, back when Enterprise was on the air, you had many contorting themselves with explanations about maybe the Akira was intentionally influenced by the retro design, even going so far as to cite the resemblance between the USS Pasteur from AGT and the Daedalus class. Yet now those same people are getting worked up over a shuttle being recycled, despite the fact that Star Trek has always had a long history of recycling ships anyway. So what is it about this shuttle that makes it so egregious that it's design can still exist when the resemblance between the Akira and the NX-01 was okay?

And yes, I am aware that reusing the Akira design for the NX-01 was forced by the studio and that it took a lot of arm twisting just to get the retro modifications done to make it look like it belonged in the pre-TOS era.

It's the same thing, but the people are still the same, I think. Those who cared about consistency were bothered by the Akiraprise and are now bothered by the Discoprise and Discoshuttles. Those who didn't care back then still don't care now.

 

[jackoverfull]

Then the next episode has a flashback scene of Picard and Raffi talking about using mothballed ships to assist in the evacuation creating an effective explanation for why we see Disco ship designs in Children of Mars.

The potential use of mothballed ship is mentioned as a contingency measure after the attack and it's also rejected.

I don't have much problems with that particular scene: it was so fast that I didn't really notice and i understand that the only appropriate asset they would have ready at that point would have been the Galaxy class, which obviously they wanted to hold back for the big reveal in Picard.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Nightingale-class rescue and transport vessels had a more John Eaves 24th century design so those were just fine. A little dull and simple but fine. They fit into the time period of the 2380s.

 

[NCC-73515]

Weren't they Wallenberg class?

 

[cooleddie74]

That's the class name. Thanks. The former Romulan Senator who confronts Picard mentions the Nightingale-class ships and that's what threw me.

 

[NCC-73515]

That's the class name. Thanks. The former Romulan Senator who confronts Picard mentions the Nightingale-class ships and that's what threw me.

I remember he called them Wallenberg class XD