Yet Another Doomsday Machine Thread

[jackoverfull]

Just rewatched the remastered version. Ugh, the effects are so inappropriate.

 

[M'Sharak]

I prefer the rough original Bugle... This is probably the biggest thing these aliens ever built, and building on that scale isn't going to make it look sleek and machined as if it came from a factory (though that may be what Spinrad had in mind).

What Spinrad had in mind appears to have been quite different from either the rough bugle or a sleek and machined version of same. Also probably impossible, given the limited effects budget they had available for that episode.

StarTrek.com: What did you make of the machine they devised?

Spinrad: That was the only thing that was disappointing about it. The original idea, which was complicated, is maybe a machine, but it’s maybe an artificial organism, to serve the same purpose. Then you have the question, “When does an artificial organism become a machine and when does a machine become an artificial organism?" The thing I had in my head was not like the thing that they shot. Gene said to me after I finished the script, “Look, can you draw the thing for us, please?” I’m not much of an artist. I paint a little bit now, but I still can’t do it very well. So I really worked on it. I drew the thing. It had complicated tentacle things that had the laser or whatever on the tips. So the thing looked ambiguous; you wondered looking at it, “Is this alive or is it a robot?” Then, when they shot it, they showed me what they’d do it with. I said to Gene, “After I went through all the work on this, this is what you shoot? It looks like a wind sock dipped in cement.” Gene, having been a pilot, said to me, “That’s what it is, it’s a wind sock dipped in cement. We didn’t have any money for anything else.”
​

From Interview: "Doomsday" & More With Norman Spinrad, Part 1

 

[publiusr]

In other words— the Narada, or a ramscoop?

I used to associate the weapon sound as the Klingon disruptor, but now feel DM owns this sound instead.

The maw reminds me of the Guardian of Forever in being roughly hewn...or being very, very old.

 

[johnnybear]

The only thing that lets the episode down is the final shot of the Constellation heading into the Doomsday Machine's maw! It is so obviously a toy with a melted plastic nacelle and spoils the effect that the last forty seven minutes had been building us up for!
JB

 

[publiusr]

I might have fixed that by having some CG make the model disintegrate like a comet, obscure the model with sparks, flames, etc.

Hide, not replace the flaws

 

[jackoverfull]

The only thing that lets the episode down is the final shot of the Constellation heading into the Doomsday Machine's maw! It is so obviously a toy with a melted plastic nacelle and spoils the effect that the last forty seven minutes had been building us up for!
JB

still way better than the CGI shot they replaced it with: its iconic!

 

[Noname Given]

The only thing that lets the episode down is the final shot of the Constellation heading into the Doomsday Machine's maw! It is so obviously a toy with a melted plastic nacelle and spoils the effect that the last forty seven minutes had been building us up for!
JB

Well as a kid I always thought the fact that one of the Constellation's nacelles shook and vibrated a bit as the ship moved forward was kind of funny (talking about the original effects here not the remastered version ).

 

[johnnybear]

The remastered stuff, outside of the early Constellation shots with the asteroids, looks like a cartoon!!!
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

The problem with CGI is that unless you put a lot of time and money in it, it ages very quickly. As far as the work CBS did for Star Trek (which was done quickly and under a tight budget), at the time or release some of it was exemplary (Tomorrow is Yesterday atmosphere scenes are striking), most of it was pretty good (to be honest) and a lot looked like drawings. Contemporary model effects may not look convincing over time, but they at least look like they were organic to the series and don’t suffer from Babylon 5 syndrome. If I had any kind of restoration fantasy it would be to have someone refilm the effects shots with 1966 accurate model recreations. Some modelers out there (like @Chris PikE) put kits together that are truly screen accurate.

 

[M'Sharak]

In other words— the Narada, or a ramscoop?

The similarity of Spinrad's description for the planet-killer to aspects of Narada (including several concept drawings later simplified) had indeed occurred to me; both seemed well-suited to the task of reducing large planetary bodies to smaller, more easily-processed pieces.

still way better than the CGI shot they replaced it with: its iconic!

For CGI replacement of the original effects, I much preferred @Professor Moriarty 's take on it* to the official version provided by CBS.


* Which I don't seem to be able to find online anymore. It was pretty impressive, though.

 

[Warped9]

While the planet killer is huge compared to a starship it is actually a tiny thing relative to a planet. Cutting up a planet could actually be a time consuming affair let alone digesting the entire planet. It might only require taking bite sized chunks out of a planet, which could still be quite devastating. It could also more easily consume asteroids, comets and small moons for fuel.

Consuming planetary matter is likely just a convenient side benefit to it’s actual purpose as a weapon of terror—a near unstoppable device to destroy inhabited planets or powerful defending/attacking spacecraft.

 

[jackoverfull]

The similarity of Spinrad's description for the planet-killer to aspects of Narada (including several concept drawings later simplified) had indeed occurred to me; both seemed well-suited to the task of reducing large planetary bodies to smaller, more easily-processed pieces.


For CGI replacement of the original effects, I much preferred @Professor Moriarty 's take on it* to the official version provided by CBS.


* Which I don't seem to be able to find online anymore. It was pretty impressive, though.

i remember seeing it and liking it.

 

[scotpens]

. . . I said to Gene, “After I went through all the work on this, this is what you shoot? It looks like a wind sock dipped in cement.” Gene, having been a pilot, said to me, “That’s what it is, it’s a wind sock dipped in cement. We didn’t have any money for anything else.”​

Of course, G.R. was being facetious (assuming he actually said that). A wind sock dipped in cement would look like a stretched-out, soggy wind sock. IIRC, The DM model was actually a wire frame covered with multiple layers of colored gel or cellophane to give it that translucent quality.​

 

[Ssosmcin]

Of course, G.R. was being facetious (assuming he actually said that). A wind sock dipped in cement would look like a stretched-out, soggy wind sock. IIRC, The DM model was actually a wire frame covered with multiple layers of colored gel or cellophane to give it that translucent quality.​

I absolutely hate that story because it’s being relayed by the writer of the episode and with no production documentation to say otherwise, it’s become lore. Cushman f’n put it in his book and I’m just counting the seconds before Me-TV posts it on one of their “Facts About Star Trek” social media articles.

 

[StarCruiser]

While the planet killer is huge compared to a starship it is actually a tiny thing relative to a planet. Cutting up a planet could actually be a time consuming affair let alone digesting the entire planet. It might only require taking bite sized chunks out of a planet, which could still be quite devastating. It could also more easily consume asteroids, comets and small moons for fuel.

Consuming planetary matter is likely just a convenient side benefit to it’s actual purpose as a weapon of terror—a near unstoppable device to destroy inhabited planets or powerful defending/attacking spacecraft.

The DDM may not actually eat the entire planet anyway. Could actually be after the rare earth elements - radio-actives and such. The rest, becomes the asteroid mess you see the Constellation drifting in.

 

[Henoch]

The tastiest parts of a planet are at its crunchy center. I like the previous post that heavy radioactive metals like uranium are the DDM's fuel. One would believe that as planets form from a molten state that the heavy elements concentrate and settle at its core. To get at the best fuel, the DDM blasts entire planets into rubble then selectively sucks up the goodies.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The DDM may not actually eat the entire planet anyway. Could actually be after the rare earth elements - radio-actives and such. The rest, becomes the asteroid mess you see the Constellation drifting in.

The tastiest parts of a planet are at its crunchy center. I like the previous post that heavy radioactive metals like uranium are the DDM's fuel. One would believe that as planets form from a molten state that the heavy elements concentrate and settle at its core. To get at the best fuel, the DDM blasts entire planets into rubble then selectively sucks up the goodies.

Maybe.

But Spock's sensors read some sort of total conversion drive was powering the machine. Who knows what elements would be needed in Trek tech terms?

 

[Noname Given]

Maybe.

But Spock's sensors read some sort of total conversion drive was powering the machine. Who knows what elements would be needed in Trek tech terms?

I always figured the term: "total conversion drive" meant that the DDM could convert any/all matter that it drew into its maw, to energy which could be used for propulsion or whatever else was required

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always figured the term: "total conversion drive" meant that the DDM could convert any/all matter that it drew into its maw, to energy which could be used for propulsion or whatever else was required

I always interpreted it as 100% E=mc², total conversion of matter into energy. An inverse process would be total conversion of energy into antimatter, explaining how the antiproton attack beam is generated.

 

[Maurice]

What Spinrad had in mind appears to have been quite different from either the rough bugle or a sleek and machined version of same. Also probably impossible, given the limited effects budget they had available for that episode.

StarTrek.com: What did you make of the machine they devised?

Spinrad: That was the only thing that was disappointing about it. The original idea, which was complicated, is maybe a machine, but it’s maybe an artificial organism, to serve the same purpose. Then you have the question, “When does an artificial organism become a machine and when does a machine become an artificial organism?" The thing I had in my head was not like the thing that they shot. Gene said to me after I finished the script, “Look, can you draw the thing for us, please?” I’m not much of an artist. I paint a little bit now, but I still can’t do it very well. So I really worked on it. I drew the thing. It had complicated tentacle things that had the laser or whatever on the tips. So the thing looked ambiguous; you wondered looking at it, “Is this alive or is it a robot?” Then, when they shot it, they showed me what they’d do it with. I said to Gene, “After I went through all the work on this, this is what you shoot? It looks like a wind sock dipped in cement.” Gene, having been a pilot, said to me, “That’s what it is, it’s a wind sock dipped in cement. We didn’t have any money for anything else.”
​

From Interview: "Doomsday" & More With Norman Spinrad, Part 1

As to the Planet Killer, what Spinrad says he imaged the machine looking like doesn't jibe with what he wrote.

Spinrad in his first draft* story outline described it thusly. (http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/discovereddocuments/035)...

...the Constellation was attacked by a huge metallic creature, which Decker refers to as the "Eater" -- a kind of cylindrical "living atomic rocket" at least ten times the size of the Constellation, apparently from beyond the Galaxy, with a posterior rocket and a great anterior funnel-mouth big enough to swallow a ship with a cluster of atomic blaster beams and tractor beams around the funnel, not a machine, but a living organism with a nuclear metabolism.​

The cover of one script I've seen features has a faint sketch of a circle (like looking at the thing from in front) with lot of short lines pointing out from it...possibly the cluster of atomic blaster beams and tractor beams around the funnel...or just lines indicating a glow coming from it. Or maybe it's nothing at all.

But the crew works from the script, not the outlines. The script says:

From scene 31:

DECKER​

A hundred times the size of a
starship... a mile long, with
a maw big enough to swallow a
dozen ships... it destroys
planets... cuts them to rubble...
​

And from scene 41:

On the screen, looming large and seen head-on, we see

the Planet-Killer; a great funnel extended before its
huge metallic body as if it were to devour the Enterprise.

SPOCK'S VOICE​

An immense body... a large funnel-
mouth... It looks very much like
Commodore Decker's Planet-killer...
And it is pursuing us!
​

No other details in the script.