Gene gets much bad talk around here....

[Kor]

I don’t recall the over-sexualized accusation for Cage (although I’m sure someone might have had a problem with it at some point), but I do remember that a lot of folks, mostly in the Bible Belt, felt that Spock looked too demonic with the ears and eyebrows and really wanted him booted from the cast.

The kind of dance that Vina did was already a common feature in sword-and-sandal feature films of the time, especially the ones made in Europe. But this was television, and I don't think you really saw that kind of thing in an American TV show in 1964. Plus there was the whole plot point about the Talosians wanting to keep Pike on their planet to mate with one of the women. Despite the pitch that Star Trek was supposed to be more of a grown-up science fiction show, maybe the execs couldn't get past the idea of the time that television SF should be kid-friendly. The 1960s was a decade of rapid change, so apparently that stuff was okay by the time "The Cage" was mixed into "The Menagerie" and aired in late 1966 (though Pike's "wild little animal" line was deleted). Also, now that I think about it, it's kind of surprising that the Talosians were going to have Pike be monogamous, considering this was a GR story!

Kor

 

[Orphalesion]

The kind of dance that Vina did was already a common feature in sword-and-sandal feature films of the time, especially the ones made in Europe. But this was television, and I don't think you really saw that kind of thing in an American TV show in 1964.

Even today there's quite a bit of difference between what you can show on European daytime television and what you can show on American daytime television.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes. It's in vogue to dis GR's contributions to Star Trek but he did a huge amount of the heavy lifting. People have even gone so far as to claim that Coon invented the Prime Directive but he didn't. It's there in everything but name in GR's May 1965 2nd pilot version of "The Omega Glory". That's not to knock the contributions of others, but the adulation pendulum has swung to the opposite side from GR. Reality is probably more in the middle.

Exactly. Reality is in the middle. I feel its overblown because "Gene's Vision" gets thrown at as a carte blanche way to dismiss anything not considered Star Trek.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Nimoy returned but he was NOT the only member of the pilot cast to return. Without stating the obvious, it's somewhat fair to state that the only other actor to make it back was someone he was fucking, so yes, casting couch politics very well could have been a factor.

Wow, I had no idea that GR had something going on with Geological Technician Fisher.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0655.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd319.jpg

 

[XCV330]

Wow, I had no idea that GR had something going on with Geological Technician Fisher.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0655.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd319.jpg

ok ok.
he might have been promoted to Love Instructor later.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This is the first I'm hearing about the sexual relationship between Gene Roddenberry and Edward Madden.

...Is there an echo in here?

 

[Maurice]

The Fred Fred Freiberger-produced (although Roddenberry was involved to a lesser degree, I think it's generally agreed that he was pretty uninvolved) season 3 is a notable example of how without Roddenberry or Coon producing Trek could have been a different and much weaker show.

He was more involved than people think, but less involved than previously as he'd moved off the lot to do Tarzan.

Just as a general remark, not aimed at you or anyone in particular, I wish that people who know better would correct Wikipedia when claims are made there that cannot be substantiated.

You have no idea how many Wikipedia edits and wholesale rewrites I have made over the years , but click here if you dare (link). The issue is we are two guys against an avalanche of fans who quote a plethora of bad sources, and to refute a claim and make it stick you have to cite the sources for the debunking information. Many times these sources are not published (i.e. production paperwork) so it's more work to fill in that data that just citing a book and page #.

Nimoy returned but he was NOT the only member of the pilot cast to return. Without stating the obvious, it's somewhat fair to state that the only other actor to make it back was someone he was fucking, so yes, casting couch politics very well could have been a factor. Lucille Ball was certainly not happy about it.

That's really missing the forest for the trees. Madden's character in the first pilot script is only identified as "Geologist". Fisher in "The Enemy Within" is not necessarily the same character. I do not believe Madden was signed as a recurring role as were Hunter, Nimoy, Barrett, et al, who comprised the main cast, so my point stands that NBC wanted a clean sweep of the "cast".

We have no record of what Lucy thought about almost anything re Star Trek. Whose account are you basing this on?

Since second pilot's are almost never ordered, the rationalizations provided in that linked page have very little bearing. Anyone involved in the original pilot had some reason or hope to think they'd be up for a second filming.

Second pilots were not as rare as Star Trek pop history would have you believe, as @Harvey illustrated some years back. (link) Uncommon, sure, but hardly unprecedented.

 

[Vger23]

The Fred Fred Freiberger-produced (although Roddenberry was involved to a lesser degree, I think it's generally agreed that he was pretty uninvolved) season 3 is a notable example of how without Roddenberry or Coon producing Trek could have been a different and much weaker show.

Not from my perspective. I love Season 3.

 

[plynch]

I love S3 too, though the lack of money shows.

 

[BK613]

Nimoy returned but he was NOT the only member of the pilot cast to return.

He was the only one to return for the second pilot. Which seemed to be @Maurice's point.

 

[C.E. Evans]

We have no record of what Lucy thought about almost anything re Star Trek.

I think the only thing we can glean from Lucille Ball's take on Star Trek was that she had extreme faith in the show's concept. There have been articles here and there about advisors at Desilu urging her to abandon the project because it was inherently too risky and expensive, but she refused to give up even after the first pilot failed.

 

[Maurice]

I think the only thing we can glean from Lucille Ball's take on Star Trek was that she had extreme faith in the show's concept. There have been articles here and there about advisors at Desilu urging her to abandon the project because it was inherently too risky and expensive, but she refused to give up even after the first pilot failed.

We don't know what Lucy thought. It could have been Solow pushing. We covered that here.

 

[Nyotarules]

I think a number of people have said NBC felt "The Cage" was too cerebral. I don't think that was just Roddenberry. They did reject it after all. Though I'm sure there were other factors too.

Roddenberry himself admitted he promised a 'wagon train to the stars' and whatever you may say about "The Cage" it was not like that. He even said he didn't blame them for rejecting it because he didn't deliver what he promised. It was one of the rare times Roddenberry said something was a mistake and it was on him, that it was his fault.

And I've read other things saying similar things, that the network thought it had potential (which led them to make the rare decision to commission a 2nd pilot--something that just wasn't done in those days), but they wanted more action.

I liked "The Cage"--but I don't think anyone would call it action packed.

One other factor, advertisers in the 1960's when it comes colour the only thing that mattered was the colour green, companies realised 'colored people' were also consumers and wanted to appeal to that audience. There were other diverse shows on TV. e.g I Spy however Trek pilot The Cage was light, bright and very, very white, for a show set on futuristic Earth that is a major insult to the majority of humankind and 12% of the USA population.
GR might have boasted of Trek's diverse crew but his hand was forced

 

[C.E. Evans]

We don't what Lucy thought. It could have been Solow pushing. We covered that here.

Which is neither here nor there, really. My point is that the only thing we do know is that it was her call whether or not Desilu continued with Star Trek or gave up and walked away from it.

 

[Maurice]

Which is neither here nor there, really. My point is that the only thing we do know is that it was her call whether or not Desilu continued with Star Trek or gave up and walked away from it.

You said she had "extreme faith", and that's not supported nor denied by the historical record. That's all.

 

[C.E. Evans]

You said she had "extreme faith", and that's not supposed nor denied by the historical record. That's all.

People generally don't invest in projects they don't actually believe can work. That's simply truth. Whether or not Ball believed in "Gene's Vision" or knew any of the particulars (characters, storylines, etc.) with Star Trek is not really the issue.

 

[BillJ]

People generally don't invest in projects they don't actually believe can work. That's simply truth. Whether or not Ball believed in "Gene's Vision" or knew any of the particulars (characters, storylines, etc.) with Star Trek is not really the issue.

I think it is safer to say that she had faith in her studio being able to pull off producing the project (also including Mission Impossible) than having faith in the concept itself.

 

[XCV330]

He was the only one to return for the second pilot. Which seemed to be @Maurice's point.

I forgot about him.

But let's not be obtuse. Who was Majel Barrett again?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think it is safer to say that she had faith in her studio being able to pull off producing the project (also including Mission Impossible) than having faith in the concept itself.

That really is something that had to be in place on day one, but Desilu was already one of the biggest production studios in Hollywood even before Star Trek was even first conceived (at one point, Desilu had more sound stages than both MGM and 20th Century Fox). I think with Star Trek, though, it was more of an issue of the show just being very expensive and the bean counters at Desilu being unsuccessful in getting Ball to drop the series.

 

[Harvey]

That really is something that had to be in place on day one, but Desilu was already one of the biggest production studios in Hollywood even before Star Trek was even first conceived (at one point, Desilu had more sound stages than both MGM and 20th Century Fox). I think with Star Trek, though, it was more of an issue of the show just being very expensive and the bean counters at Desilu being unsuccessful in getting Ball to drop the series.

Desilu had the sound stages—although Bob Justman complained that they were poorly maintained and outdated—but the studio wasn’t actively producing anything beyond The Lucy Show when Star Trek and Mission: Impossible came around. Herb Solow and Oscar Katz were hired to get more Desilu owned shows on the air. Inside Star Trek goes into detail how NBC was unsure if the aging studio could pull off a series like Star Trek (if CBS didn’t have the same concerns about Desilu and Mission: Impossible, they should have).