Read: Alec went to an actual lawyer and was told:
"You're the one who could end up actually being sued for libel / slander if you keep this up..."
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens
- Thread starter jespah
- Start date
"You're the one who could end up actually being sued for libel / slander if you keep this up..."
I don't see any claims of copyright in the press release, only that Paul is wrong to have tried to register a copyright. Perhaps there is some post-settlement context I'm not aware of.
You're taking this out of context...
Granted, Alec's original comments in Axanar After Dark #94 and #99 probably were hypocritical, but items #5 and #6 in the press release are not hypocritical because they address the validity of Paul's claims of libel against him specifically.
Unless CBS granted them a waiver in the settlement (unlikely), the Fan Film Guidelines state:
9. Creators of fan productions must not seek to register their works, nor any elements of the works, under copyright or trademark law.
This means scripts, designs...anything.
Except that my point was that the press release didn't make any claims of copyright that would violate that guideline. They were stating that Paul was making copyright claims, which would make HIM in violation of the guideline.
I'm not saying you don't have a moral point here, but legally speaking, the Devil's in the details. For example, "he never worked in Hollywood" is probably correct in a literal sense, and a "film director" could be interpreted as meaning someone who has directed a feature film, which Paul has not. Terms like "wannabe" and "amateur" are subjective enough in their meaning that they could be considered an opinion regarding his skill and not a statement of fact about his experience. I don't see anything solid here.
I expect them to settle, probably for an apology and a removal of Paul's name from the project in exchange for him dropping all legal action. Paul will eventually realize that Alec has nothing to loose fighting him on the copyright front because he can get his supporters to bankroll the lawsuit, and my understanding is that Paul doesn't have the hard drive with the footage, so he can't use that as leverage. Plus the libel suit will basically just publicize his prior affiliation with Axanar. He might be able to win the libel suit, but he WON'T win anything related to copyright, and Alec's loyalists will pay all the fines, so what's the point?
As long as he was the director and paid for the stuff in his IMDB profile, then Paul Jenkins is not an amateur or a wannabe, he is a professional director. The feature film excuse also doesn't really work since Axanar is just a couple of shorts, so working on them wouldn't have gotten him that kind of experience that Peters claims he was looking for.
I said (typo fixed) "None of you should be Copyrighting anything on this thing." That simply meant no one associated with these fanfilms, period. It's a general statement fer Pete's sake.
Claiming a copyright on someone else's IP strikes me as, at best, tacky. At worst...well....
I don't believe this has been true in any phase of Axanar. The amount of money Alec has been taking in via crowd funding has steadily dropped since the project began and is now quite low, certainly not enough to fund a petty lawsuit. The Axanar fans only really pony up when the promise of the compled film (or 2 shorts) is presented to them, and even then just barely.
Alec could argue that he was expressing his opinion about the quality of Paul's work. Unless you can prove he doesn't actually hold that opinion, that's not libel.
Alec could argue that he was referring to Paul's desire to emulate other more sucessful directors in the field. It's a matter of context, and that's not even factoring in the possibility that he wasn't speaking literally at the time.
The press release never specifically states that Axanar is a feature film, though. It only states that it was Alec's "understanding" that he had no professional experience as a "film director".
You have a point regarding the libel, but since the film can't be completed without the supposedly infringing footage, and since the copyright is so obviously invalid in the first place, I feel like this fits. However, you might have a point that his support has dwindled to the point where he can't raise the funds under any condition, so it might be a moot point on my account.
I still want that donation amount at zero.
I'm confused why you're sticking up for Peters. He's fucked fans eight ways to Sunday.
It was pretty clear from the way he was talking about him, that he was saying he had no experience as a director, and that is simply not true.
Success has nothing to do with it, once you have done the thing, you are no longer a wanabe, you are a person who has done the thing.
It doesn't matter if it's a feature film or a short film, it's still experience as a film director and if he was paid for directing those films, then he would be a professional director.
Sunk cost?
I'm not interested in sticking up for him. I'm just pondering the probability that Paul will succeed on libel. Not that it matters, though, because it would be a Pyrrhic victory due to the Streisand effect: Suing Alec just exposes his association with him, however brief. I'd have way more sympathy for the guy if he didn't pull that copyright bull$#!+. I really don't want Axanar fans to have anyone to blame other than Alec if the short film never gets made.
I'll take your word for it. I was just going by the press release.
I would definitely argue that directing a feature-length film is a significantly different skill set from doing a short film. However, given your characterization of what he said in the podcasts, I'm starting to question if a court would interpret "film" as a feature film instead of more broadly as a film of any length. If the latter, the distinction of length is irrelevant and the point is moot because the term "film director" would have been legally determined to apply to short films, making Alec's statement false.
I never listened to the podcast, I was just going by the statement on the website.
And like I said before, if he was looking for feature film experience then he wasn't going to get it with Axanar, so it doesn't really seem likely that was what Peters was referring to.
And like I said before, if he was looking for feature film experience then he wasn't going to get it with Axanar, so it doesn't really seem likely that was what Peters was referring to.
My understanding (which could be wrong) is that you can claim a copyright without actually filing unless and until some issue comes up in which case you can file retroactively and that makes it official. So a copyright logo on a document could be valid. (Of course, that's assuming it's not in violation of someone else's intellectual property) It seems like we would have covered somewhere back in the first thread, but my inclination is to ask the Right Honorable Madame Chief Justice of Fan Productions Jespah for a clarification.
Yes, I know what Copyright law is. I've filed Copyright papers and worked with IP lawyers at Namco. That wasn't my question. Did the guy write Copyright 2020 MYNAME on it or file it? Or did he just make some statement that Alec couldn't use it because copyright reasons?