What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Nyotarules]

Cleopatra was of Macedonian ancestry.

But other than that I agree that actor background and character background do not need to be the same (within reason of course, don't a white person if the character is supposed and stated to be black and then use makeup to match that, for example)
So I think there's nothing wrong with casting a Chinese man to play a Korean, or a British man to play a Russian. Really limiting your casting choices so that the actor's background matches the character's 1:1 would be ridiculous and might lead to an inferior product. Like really? Walter Koenig instead of Sean Connery, just because Koenig's grandparents lived in Russia?In what universe would that make any sense??

Though in Star Trek, where the backgrounds of characters, most of the time are really just window dressing, I agree that they could have easily changed Harry to be Chinese to match the actor. It would not have made an iota of difference.

True but it would make a change if a Star Trek show had a Chinese, Korean, Nepalese, Thai characters. i.e more than one South Asian character rather than the lazy Hollywood practice of we've ticked the Asian box with this one person. When was the last time main characters came from India, Pakistan or Burma on a Star Trek show or even the Pacific Islands? ,
Enterprise had its chance but blew it on that front- three Americans, one Brit, one South Asian all representing a United Earth crew....mmmmm at least have one damn Russian for goodness sake and two Americans instead?

 

[Orphalesion]

True but it would make a change if a Star Trek show had a Chinese, Korean, Nepalese, Thai characters. i.e more than one South Asian character rather than the lazy Hollywood practice of we've ticked the Asian box with this one person. When was the last main characters came from India, Pakistan or Burma on a Star Trek show or even the Pacific Islands? ,
Enterprise had its chance but blew it on that front- three Americans, one Brit, one South Asian all representing a United Earth crew....mmmmm at least have one Russian for goodness sake and two Americans instead?

Oh I definitely agree that Star Trek should have been a lot more diverse. A LOT more.
Just saying it's not necessary to hire a Russian actor to have a Russian character.

And we can actually incorporate the actors IRL Ethnic Heritage into the backgrounds of their characters.
It works better that way IMO.

But you don't need to be limited by the actor's "ethnic heritage"
Again, you cannot tell me that Hunt for Red October would have been better with Walter Koenig instead of Sean Connery, those two actors aren't even in the same category when it comes to skill/charisma.

 

[JesterFace]

Is it controversial if I say that when it comes to Trek currenly I'm interested only in The Original Series and The Next Generation, others have lost their interest. That may change at some point but right now only these two Treks are interesting.

 

[Nyotarules]

Here goes...Lwaxanna Troi was a wonderful character. I just saw some complaining about her on another thread so I guess this will be a controversial opinion but I always really enjoyed her. She was something totally rare on TV — a woman of a certain age who was exuberant, passionate, lived life to the full, was utterly comfortable in her own skin, gregarious, larger than life, didn’t suffer fools and didn’t take life too seriously. Frankly, I sometimes think she’s a lot more human than just about any of the TNG’s rather dull cast. There was also a tragic side to the character and had greater depth than many acknowledge. Plus she was played by Majel Barrett, Trek’s First Lady, and I think she did a marvellous job.

Another Lwaxanna fan here, I think for some it comes with the discomfort seeing a mature woman reveling in her sexual self. There was no reason for Picard not to find her attractive or return her affections, they never portrayed Picard as a lecherous old man who preferred younger women, did they (and he did).
Crusher was 19 years his junior and they flirted with the idea of hooking them up and shipped them in the novels.
A touch of subconscious misogyny from the writers regarding older women perhaps?
I read a fanfic where in the Betazoid culture it was the norm for older woman to choose younger men as mates, since they are a matriarchal culture as stated on TNG. Makes sense from an inverse patriarchal culture perspective.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

But you don't need to be limited by the actor's "ethnic heritage"

I would PREFER it to be limited. One is pretending to be something else. While the other is a authentic portrayal.

This is same Hollywood issue as where they hire "Jake Gyllenhal" to portray the main character for the Prince of Persia movie.

Instead of hiring an actual man of Persian descent which was an option. The only issue was that he wasn't a "Famous Western" actor. He had the right body build, the right ethnicity, but not the Hollywood fame.

Again, you cannot tell me that Hunt for Red October would have been better with Walter Koenig instead of Sean Connery, those two actors aren't even in the same category when it comes to skill/charisma.

Walter might not be the same caliber of actor as Sean Connery, but I wouldn't mine seeing a different portrayal of it. A more authentic portrayal.

We have more than enough "White Washing" of characters or inaccurate representations.

Do we need more examples like the Live Action Dragon Ball movie casting the whitest Canadian actor to portray a obvious Asian role?

I'm just tired of these inaccurate castings.

If the role calls for ___ Ethnicity for the character, find somebody that is authentically of that heritage.

Otherwise write a open ended character if your so insistent on shoving just about anybody into that role.

 

[Morgan Primus]

You will need a time machine then. In the current time, there isn’t the necessary pressure to cast proper ethnicity

 

[Nyotarules]

Oh I definitely agree that Star Trek should have been a lot more diverse. A LOT more.
Just saying it's not necessary to hire a Russian actor to have a Russian character.

No definitely not necessary, although it would show imagination to have a Russian character played by a human with brown skin, after all its the futuristic 23rd or 24th century, you can work in Timbuktu and live in Moscow by commuting via teleporation device.

 

[Nyotarules]

I would PREFER it to be limited. One is pretending to be something else. While the other is a authentic portrayal.

This is same Hollywood issue as where they hire "Jake Gyllenhal" to portray the main character for the Prince of Persia movie.

Instead of hiring an actual man of Persian descent which was an option. The only issue was that he wasn't a "Famous Western" actor. He had the right body build, the right ethnicity, but not the Hollywood fame.

Walter might not be the same caliber of actor as Sean Connery, but I wouldn't mine seeing a different portrayal of it. A more authentic portrayal.

We have more than enough "White Washing" of characters or inaccurate representations.

Do we need more examples like the Live Action Dragon Ball movie casting the whitest Canadian actor to portray a obvious Asian role?

I'm just tired of these inaccurate castings.

If the role calls for ___ Ethnicity for the character, find somebody that is authentically of that heritage.

Otherwise write a open ended character if your so insistent on shoving just about anybody into that role.

I understand your real world reasons for the limitations but why limit actors to just the nation they were born? There are places on this earth are that are diverse, e.g if you only expect a white person to play a British person then I suggest you wake up to the fact parts of the world are not as monolithic as you think. (Brown skinned lady with London accent writing this)
Harry Kim could be Chinese heritage with an Australian accent and identify with the nation Australia.

 

[fireproof78]

Again, you cannot tell me that Hunt for Red October would have been better with Walter Koenig instead of Sean Connery, those two actors aren't even in the same category when it comes to skill/charisma.

I tend to agree, as far as capability.

I personally prefer greater actor capability to ethnic origin. I just hope we get more diversity of actors of ethnic origin, regardless of role though.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I understand your real world reasons for the limitations but why limit actors to just the nation they were born?

I'm not talking about "Where they were born", but their ethnic blood lineage / heritage.

To me that matters more than what nation you're born in.

If you only expect a white person to play a British person then I suggest you wake up to the fact parts of the world are not as monolithic as you think.
Harry Kim could be Chinese heritage with an Australian accent and identify with the nation Australia.

I know that. As a person born in Taiwan and raised in the USA, I totally get that.

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm not talking about "Where they were born", but their ethnic blood lineage / heritage.

To me that matters more than what nation you're born in.

So your argument is White actor Koenig should play a White Russian, but no to White actor but Scottish Connery?
Should Black Levar Burton play Black Somalian LaForge or find a Somalian actor?
Since you object to a Chinese heritage actor playing a Korean character. (and vice versa)
Where do you want to draw the ethnic lines?

 

[Morgan Primus]

...tiptoes out of the forum...

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Should Black Levar Burton play Black Somalia LaForge or find a Somalian actor?

Which ever one you can find closest to.
It wouldn't be hard for LeVar Burton to learn how to play a Black Somalian character.
At least it would be possible to portray one in a believable manner.
But they kept his character rather open ended so LeVar can develop it the way he wanted.

 

[Orphalesion]

I would PREFER it to be limited. One is pretending to be something else. While the other is a authentic portrayal.

This is same Hollywood issue as where they hire "Jake Gyllenhal" to portray the main character for the Prince of Persia movie.

Instead of hiring an actual man of Persian descent which was an option. The only issue was that he wasn't a "Famous Western" actor. He had the right body build, the right ethnicity, but not the Hollywood fame.

Walter might not be the same caliber of actor as Sean Connery, but I wouldn't mine seeing a different portrayal of it. A more authentic portrayal.

We have more than enough "White Washing" of characters or inaccurate representations.

Do we need more examples like the Live Action Dragon Ball movie casting the whitest Canadian actor to portray a obvious Asian role?

I'm not talking about "Where they were born", but their ethnic blood lineage / heritage.

To me that matters more than what nation you're born in.

I'm just tired of these inaccurate castings.

If the role calls for ___ Ethnicity for the character, find somebody that is authentically of that heritage.

Otherwise write a open ended character if your so insistent on shoving just about anybody into that role.

This is riciulous.

First of all you are mixing up two different issues.

The first is withwashing characters, and I agree that it is something that shouldn't happen.

The other one is you somehow proposing that somebody who's great-great whatever parents came from somewhere magically would provide a "more authentic" (whatever that means portrayal of a character) What is it magically in their genes??

And if you wanna check, Koenig's grandparents aren't even what most people would call ethnic Russians (i.e. Slavic)
They were Ashkenazi Jewish people living in Russia (so among other things they most likely spoke German. His name is German too), so how is he more "ethnically authentic" to play a Slavic Russian than Sean Connery is??

I tend to agree, as far as capability.

I personally prefer greater actor capability to ethnic origin. I just hope we get more diversity of actors of ethnic origin, regardless of role though.

yeah hiring more "ethnic" actors is a good idea. But neither Koenig nor actual Slavic actors are what I would consider "ethnic actors" under the common definition Hollywood seems to use.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

So White actor Koenig should play a White Russian, but no to White actor Connery...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Koenig
Koenig was born in Chicago, Illinois, the son of businessman Isadore Koenig and his wife Sarah (née Strauss).[citation needed][1] They moved to Manhattan when Walter was a child, where he went to school. Koenig's parents were Russian Jewish immigrants from the Soviet Union; his family lived in Lithuania when they emigrated, and shortened their surname from "Königsberg" to "Koenig".[2]

At least Walter Koenig is closer to having Russian lineage than Sean Connery.

This is riciulous.

First of all you are mixing up two different issues.

The first is withwashing characters, and I agree that it is something that shouldn't happen.

The other one is you somehow proposing that somebody who's great-great whatever parents came from somewhere magically would provide a "more authentic" (whatever that means portrayal of a character) What is it magically in their genes??

And if you wanna check, Koenig's grandparents aren't even what most people would call ethnic Russians (i.e. Slavic)
They were Ashkenazi Jewish people living in Russia (so among other things they most likely spoke German. His name is German too), so how is he more "ethnically authentic" to play a Slavic Russian than Sean Connery is??

If they can find an actual Russian actor, then more power to them.
But they hired what they hired.

yeah hiring more "ethnic" actors is a good idea. But neither Koenig nor actual Slavic actors are what I would consider "ethnic actors" under the common definition Hollywood seems to use.

Hollywood is incredibly shallow and just throw people into large Racial buckets.

 

[Orphalesion]

If they can find an actual Russian actor, then more power to them.
But they hired what they hired.

They hired after skill which is all that matters.

Hollywood is incredibly shallow and just throw people into large Racial buckets.

Yes and Slavic people are in the "White" Bucket. So any white actor is capable of portraying them. No matter if they have a great-great-great-great-father who lived in Moscow for a month or not.
Just like any Slavic actor is good to portray a (white) American, British Person, French Person, South African Person etc.

 

[Morgan Primus]

This is absurd. Hollywood isn’t going to hire because of ethnic origin anytime soon, and the greater question is why should they?

All they need do is hire someone who is competent in the role.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yes and Slavic people are White. So any white actor is capable of portraying them. No matter if they have a great-great-great-great-father who lived in Moscow for a month or not.

So are you saying any Asian Actor should be able to portray any other Asian character?

I think that's a bit broad of bucket.

Just like I wouldn't cast Sweedish Actors to portray Russians if I can find an actual Russian.

If I had a French Character, I'd prefer to find an actual Frenchmen.

This is absurd. Hollywood isn’t going to hire because of ethnic origin anytime soon, and the greater question is why should they?

All they need do is hire someone who is competent in the role.

So should Hollywood have hired the best Black Actress to play the lead character in the live action Mulan? Or a White Actress to play the lead character? What about a Korean/Japanese Actress to play a Chinese character?

Or should Hollywood have changed the story to fit any ethnicity?

Or should Hollywood have stayed the course and hire Chinese Actors to fit the story?

 

[JoseNoodles]

So, the first real lip-to-lip kiss (or forced pressing) between a Caucasian and an African American on TV in the US was Shatner and Nichols. I'm glad we finally got there.

Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz would kiss on I Love Lucy. That show predated Star Trek. To be fair, it was kissing between a white woman and a Latino man. I'm not sure what the first interracial between a white person and a black person on television was, and I'm not 100% sure that Star Trek was the first time, even though it often credited as such.

 

[Morgan Primus]

Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz would kiss on I Love Lucy. That show predated Star Trek. To be fair, it was kissing between a white woman and a Latino man. I'm not sure what the first interracial between a white person and a black person on television was, and I'm not 100% sure that Star Trek was the first time, even though it often credited as such.

It wasn’t the first time in the west, by any means. But in the US it was a big deal. Ironically, the cheek kiss Uhura gave Chapel was panned.