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Impulse Drive, Therories on how it works?

I always thought 1/4 or 1/3 power means turning the Impulse engine Power level to be 25% or 33.333% of Maximum Engine Power.
Engine Power and actual Relative speed are separate things due to factors such as Engine type and Vessel type it's mounted in.

Similar to Reality when you operate most vehicles and vessels.

How far you press on the accelerator pedal or push the engine throttle has no direct correlation between vehicles of different types or speed.

Everything is relative to engine type, vehicle type, environmental conditions, etc.
 
In The Doomsday Machine the main drive was down though, meaning ALL they had was impulse fuel reserves. This suggests that the warp engines usually assist the Impulse Engines in some manner, perhaps even generating fuel for them?

Or then warp is vital for both fuel economy and maneuverability for the same reason: it's the warp engines that create the all-important mass-reducing field. On this model of starship at least.

Scotty does follow his "the impulse engines are not too badly off" with the surprisingly cautious "we might do something with them". Such as, not move at impulse, because they alone can't do that even when fully operational?

Timo Saloniemi
 
it's the warp engines that create the all-important mass-reducing field. On this model of starship at least.
That's long been my belief and I think we see further evidence of it in TWOK - the Enterprise is FLEEING the Reliant before the genesis device blows, yet the best speed they can manage is measured in mere KM/hr
Of course, this is while the warp engines are explicitly offline, hence no mass reduction field, hence the Impulse Engines are straining to move the ship the best they can
 
Reading through, some flirt with my take on it, but none quite get there, so...

First, a reminder that Trek's history isn't ours. Divergence point is no later than some time in the 1800s, possibly earlier. This might seem obvious to some, but it bears repeating. They got the latter 20th century we were promised before Kennedy's assasination, before Nixon.

Just as one of the conceits of the Fallout universe is that the transistor wasn't discovered until almost a century after it was for us, the Trek universe had non-Newtonian propulsion and artificial gravity by the 1990s. Evidence: The Botany Bay. Matt Jeffries designed it as an "antique tramp space freighter". Episode dialogue establishes that craft like it were used as cryogenic sublight sleeper ships. One wonders if, say, a couple of those settled Alpha Centauri around the same time. I never understood why some of the ancillary materials hold that Khan and his people stole it and fled Earth. It always seemed to me an involuntary exile, hence the ship's name. Any rate, that ship has no visible thrust nozzles, rocket bells, maneuvering thrusters... No openings of any kind that I can see, actually. I've seen some postulate the rear pod is just a reactor. But I don't care how well you aim, you're still going to need to stop when you reach your destination. Or get yourself back on course, if the meteoroids don't also damage the wake-up interrupts.

So something like impulse existed in Trek in the atomic age. And, from the evidence of that ship, it's some sort of continuum-distortion drive. I liken it to a gyroscope -- like the kind one finds in science museums. Stand on a well-lubricated turntable, give the bicycle wheel a good spin, pick it up. Hold it straight, you don't move. Tilt it this way, you start to turn in the opposite direction, and vice versa. Some sort of superconducting possibly-unobtanium whatsit spinning in a plasma field generated by the atomic pile (and, later, fusion reactors), and when it gets deflected one way or the other, it creates a gravity "incline" the ship rides.

I loved Diane Carey's ability to create interesting characters, write good dialogue, craft compelling narratives... It largely made up for the fact that she sucked at a lot of the technical details. One thing she did in Final Frontier (the book, not the movie) that I appreciated at the time, then denigrated as double-talky nonsense, then more recently realized it worked better than anything else, was her explanation -- from one character to another -- how impulse worked, and it was, essentially, that. Also that it was an holdover acronym that had become a work in its own right, like laser. I.M.Pulse. Internally-Metered Pulse drive. Regulated power surges determine the degree of continuum distortion. The latter character opines that it sounds like he's describing warp drive, to which the other engineer scoffs that warp is as far above impulse as impulse is above walking. Orders of magnitude.

Which got me thinking about Cochrane's breakthrough. If he was born on Alpha Centauri to Terran emigreés, Kirk's description of him in "Metamorphosis" holds. If high-sublight travel was a thing already as he was in his adolescence... What if, I can see him thinking, instead of varying the firing of this impulse coil, I take a bunch of them in a stack and fire them in sequence or other combinations? Early tests showed off-axis instability, so he shrank them and added a second stack to balance the first. The initial flight-test vehicle didn't quite manage it, but he was pretty sure he knew what went wrong. When he got to Earth he would just tweak some things and try again. Then he got a Third World War in the face and had to come up with a Plan B.

Anyway. As with Cochrane's warp ship, and earlier sublight ships, I figure Human FTL ships were powered by fusion reactors for a goodly while before antimatter was easy enough to make and safe enough to store to make it a practical power source for starships. And, even as antimatter came into use, the older drive style still consumed far less power for a sublight propulsion system than the big warp engines, so they stayed in use, typically, by the time we come into the story, with their own backup fusion reactors to power them in case of emergency or separation or while the antimatter reactors are shut down for repair or maintenance. An impulse fusion reactor could still probably power a small ship up to low warp, as in the early days, but for anything meaningful you need a power source with more oomph.

So when Scotty notes the Romulan Bird-of-Prey is powered by "simple impulse", it doesn't necessarily mean sublight-only -- just that the Enterprise will definitely be able to outrun it at warp... if it's visible.

It's one of the things I love about Andy's design of the movie Enterprise impulse deck. The "deflection crystal" is using warp plasma to power the impulse engines, too, even though they also still have backup fusion generators.

And the location of the impulse deck, the black rectangles on the original, the slatted panels on the later ones... Primarily heat-exchangers, protected but exposed to space. But also, yes, exhaust vents for reaction products, to prevent overpressure. Not much -- certainly not enough to push the ship -- but enough it makes sense to point them rearward along the vessel's typical direction of flight. The fusion plants alone don't warm them up enough, but when they're running under warp power, and/or at high sublight, they'll definitely be glowing orange-red.

How's that?
 
Reading through, some flirt with my take on it, but none quite get there, so...

First, a reminder that Trek's history isn't ours. Divergence point is no later than some time in the 1800s, possibly earlier. This might seem obvious to some, but it bears repeating. They got the latter 20th century we were promised before Kennedy's assasination, before Nixon.

Just as one of the conceits of the Fallout universe is that the transistor wasn't discovered until almost a century after it was for us, the Trek universe had non-Newtonian propulsion and artificial gravity by the 1990s. Evidence: The Botany Bay. Matt Jeffries designed it as an "antique tramp space freighter". Episode dialogue establishes that craft like it were used as cryogenic sublight sleeper ships. One wonders if, say, a couple of those settled Alpha Centauri around the same time. I never understood why some of the ancillary materials hold that Khan and his people stole it and fled Earth. It always seemed to me an involuntary exile, hence the ship's name. Any rate, that ship has no visible thrust nozzles, rocket bells, maneuvering thrusters... No openings of any kind that I can see, actually. I've seen some postulate the rear pod is just a reactor. But I don't care how well you aim, you're still going to need to stop when you reach your destination. Or get yourself back on course, if the meteoroids don't also damage the wake-up interrupts.

So something like impulse existed in Trek in the atomic age. And, from the evidence of that ship, it's some sort of continuum-distortion drive. I liken it to a gyroscope -- like the kind one finds in science museums. Stand on a well-lubricated turntable, give the bicycle wheel a good spin, pick it up. Hold it straight, you don't move. Tilt it this way, you start to turn in the opposite direction, and vice versa. Some sort of superconducting possibly-unobtanium whatsit spinning in a plasma field generated by the atomic pile (and, later, fusion reactors), and when it gets deflected one way or the other, it creates a gravity "incline" the ship rides.

I loved Diane Carey's ability to create interesting characters, write good dialogue, craft compelling narratives... It largely made up for the fact that she sucked at a lot of the technical details. One thing she did in Final Frontier (the book, not the movie) that I appreciated at the time, then denigrated as double-talky nonsense, then more recently realized it worked better than anything else, was her explanation -- from one character to another -- how impulse worked, and it was, essentially, that. Also that it was an holdover acronym that had become a work in its own right, like laser. I.M.Pulse. Internally-Metered Pulse drive. Regulated power surges determine the degree of continuum distortion. The latter character opines that it sounds like he's describing warp drive, to which the other engineer scoffs that warp is as far above impulse as impulse is above walking. Orders of magnitude.

Which got me thinking about Cochrane's breakthrough. If he was born on Alpha Centauri to Terran emigreés, Kirk's description of him in "Metamorphosis" holds. If high-sublight travel was a thing already as he was in his adolescence... What if, I can see him thinking, instead of varying the firing of this impulse coil, I take a bunch of them in a stack and fire them in sequence or other combinations? Early tests showed off-axis instability, so he shrank them and added a second stack to balance the first. The initial flight-test vehicle didn't quite manage it, but he was pretty sure he knew what went wrong. When he got to Earth he would just tweak some things and try again. Then he got a Third World War in the face and had to come up with a Plan B.

Anyway. As with Cochrane's warp ship, and earlier sublight ships, I figure Human FTL ships were powered by fusion reactors for a goodly while before antimatter was easy enough to make and safe enough to store to make it a practical power source for starships. And, even as antimatter came into use, the older drive style still consumed far less power for a sublight propulsion system than the big warp engines, so they stayed in use, typically, by the time we come into the story, with their own backup fusion reactors to power them in case of emergency or separation or while the antimatter reactors are shut down for repair or maintenance. An impulse fusion reactor could still probably power a small ship up to low warp, as in the early days, but for anything meaningful you need a power source with more oomph.

So when Scotty notes the Romulan Bird-of-Prey is powered by "simple impulse", it doesn't necessarily mean sublight-only -- just that the Enterprise will definitely be able to outrun it at warp... if it's visible.

It's one of the things I love about Andy's design of the movie Enterprise impulse deck. The "deflection crystal" is using warp plasma to power the impulse engines, too, even though they also still have backup fusion generators.

And the location of the impulse deck, the black rectangles on the original, the slatted panels on the later ones... Primarily heat-exchangers, protected but exposed to space. But also, yes, exhaust vents for reaction products, to prevent overpressure. Not much -- certainly not enough to push the ship -- but enough it makes sense to point them rearward along the vessel's typical direction of flight. The fusion plants alone don't warm them up enough, but when they're running under warp power, and/or at high sublight, they'll definitely be glowing orange-red.

How's that?
Nice ideas, but the DY-100 class of ships (and their engines) were explicitly ruled out as being suitable for colonising other star systems, be they sleeper ships or no - they just weren't fast enough!
Dialogue in Space Seed:
SPOCK: A strange, violent period in your history. I find no record what so ever of an SS Botany Bay. Captain, the DY-100 class vessel was designed for interplanetary travel only. With simple nuclear-powered engines, star travel was considered impractical at that time. It was ten thousand to one against their making it to another star system. And why no record of the trip?​
...
KIRK: Suspended animation.
MARLA: I've seen old photographs of this. Necessary because of the time involved in space travel until about the year 2018. It took years just to travel from one planet to another.​
 
...Which allows us to believe in sublight interstellar expeditions from Earth after 2018. Not necessarily in time to allow Cochrane to be born off Earth, or even work off Earth for any significant time before making his discovery of space warp, but still. Terra Ten is a piece of solid if a bit cartoonish canon, after all.

Mind you, we may simultaneously believe in Cochrane being the very first human to Alpha Centauri, in his warp rig perfected after 2063. Those who launched in 2018 would simply get there later. And it would be right down Cochrane's alley to pull that publicity stunt, after having flown a very private first flight basically nobody actually saw happen (he can't parade Riker and LaForge as witnesses, after all).

Would Cochrane's invention have involved antimatter? There's talk about "intermix" there, but that could refer to chemical fuels for all we know. Yet Friendship One just a few years later definitely features antimatter tech, even if not explicitly for propulsion; delaying the application of that tech to starship propulsion is not a comfortable exercise at all. Although admittedly shuttles use (polaric?) "ion power" in the 23rd century still, and aren't credited with "warp cores" even in the 24th.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Just as one of the conceits of the Fallout universe is that the transistor wasn't discovered until almost a century after it was for us, the Trek universe had non-Newtonian propulsion and artificial gravity by the 1990s.
The Botany Bay used bulky solid state transistors in 1996, but are lacking integrated circuits; is that your intent?
 
Nice ideas, but the DY-100 class of ships (and their engines) were explicitly ruled out as being suitable for colonising other star systems, be they sleeper ships or no - they just weren't fast enough!
Yeah. :) I've been mindful of all the stuff in both this series and TNG saying over and over that our (23rd/24th century) records of the time are fragmented and incomplete, due to everything that happened in the Trek universe between WWII and WWIII. I wonder what Kirk and Spock's respective commentary would have been on the LEM being actually used to land on the moon. Remember also, Kirk's interest in history was more 19th century -- pre-spaceflight. He was even the better part of a century off with IDing the Botany Bay (and subsequent remarks to Khan) as a DY-500 versus a DY-100. His comment is correct and doesn't negate using hibernation for interstellar -- just says that hibernation was needed until ships got faster over the next decade.

If a continuum-distortion drive was able to get a ship up to even a quarter of lightspeed, that's still less than twenty years to Alpha Centauri. The same people who would land on the moon in an aluminum-foil craft with barely enough fuel to land safely (and god forbid they needed to find a new landing site -- mission scrubbed) are the same sorts of people who'd take a ship designed to ferry supplies out to the settlements on Mars and say, "Hey, let's use the hibernacula we're developing for the missions to the outer planets and turn some of these into ships to see what's at Alpha Centuari and Tau Ceti. Any volunteers?" And they'd have more than they could accommodate because it's what Humans do. Even if Spock can't conceive of it because it's illogical. Potential suicide mission? Pff! One-way trip? Sure way into the history books. Earth's been staggered by the Eugenics Wars and just as people would have braved poor odds heading West in the 19th century, it was more worth it to them than staying in the crowded Eastern cities.
Those who launched in 2018 would simply get there later.
Improvements in propulsion would mean those who launched after 2018, per dialogue, were awake and not in hibernation for the trip. You're right, though. Presuming they were able to get up to three-quarters c or more, the trip would still take around six years. Which is much more reasonable, but still far slower than warp one.
Would Cochrane's invention have involved antimatter? There's talk about "intermix" there, but that could refer to chemical fuels for all we know. Yet Friendship One just a few years later definitely features antimatter tech, even if not explicitly for propulsion; delaying the application of that tech to starship propulsion is not a comfortable exercise at all. Although admittedly shuttles use (polaric?) "ion power" in the 23rd century still, and aren't credited with "warp cores" even in the 24th.
Intermix could refer to the ratio of Deuterium to Tritium going into the fusion reactor. My best rationalization of the blind spot of the makers that warp = antimatter since the beginning of time. As for Friendship One, I could see a nuclear battery being used to generate antimatter for propulsion just through natural decay.
The Botany Bay used bulky solid state transistors in 1996, but are lacking integrated circuits; is that your intent?
*lol* No. But that's a nice, if unintended parallel. I can see it being a continuation of the practice, though, of military and space craft using stuff a generation or three "behind" so that there are macro-scale components that can be easily swapped out or repaired on-site. Better to have to just replace a transistor than carry whole spare transistor-containing assemblies.
 
MARLA: I've seen old photographs of this. Necessary because of the time involved in space travel until about the year 2018. It took years just to travel from one planet to another.
Did spacecraft get faster in 2018?

Or was it a case of spaceflight ended in 2018 and when spaceflight recommenced decades later it was faster by that time? Other than flights to the moon, warp drive would be perfect for inter-solar travel.
 
Or then warp is vital for both fuel economy and maneuverability for the same reason: it's the warp engines that create the all-important mass-reducing field. On this model of starship at least.

Your caveat is important, because we've seen that a mass-reducing field CAN be produced without warp engines or even impulse engines - O'Brien generates one around DS9 to help the RCS thrusters move the station from Bajor to the wormhole in the premiere... checking Memory Alpha, this was done using the deflector array.
 
For Doomsday machine, to me it was that the Warp Reactor was taken out, so they were on emergency Fusion Reactors, which burn Fuel.
Impulse always for me involved some type of mass dampaning field, where simple thrusters can push the ship. There's been fan theory that the impulse drive section is just vents for the fusion reactors and provide zero thrust, and its all just Inertialess drive.
As for 1/4 lightspeed.. If we were capable of getting up that fast, we WOULD be going to other planets, that makes alpha Centauri in 16 years ( yes thats up to 1/4 light in quick fashion, and no slow down time. )
 
Thought: If the mass of everybody on the Station or a ship was reduced to zero, then artificial gravity wouldn't work on them. Right?
 
As for 1/4 lightspeed.. If we were capable of getting up that fast, we WOULD be going to other planets, that makes alpha Centauri in 16 years ( yes thats up to 1/4 light in quick fashion, and no slow down time. )
Depends on the "thrust" level. If the impulse drive can accelerate you up to 1/4 light speed in one second, then it can decelerate you to zero speed in one second. Why is there a 1/4 c speed limit is the mystery?
 
Thankfully, we never hear of such a speed limit in the episodes or movies.

Thought: If the mass of everybody on the Station or a ship was reduced to zero, then artificial gravity wouldn't work on them. Right?

It's a matter of viewpoint, supposedly. The universe sees a ship that weighs in at two and a half grams, Riker still feels the full weight of a trombone in his hands, LaForge might read the fuel gauge as indicating two kilograms or five hundred cubic meters of solid deuterium in the tanks, and the jet of impulse exhaust might have a flux of a trillion tons per second.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It's a self imposed speed limit due to time dilation.and limit to 0.5 warp.
An hour at impulse getting out if a system is no problem but still have to reset clocks to beacons regularly.
Warp has no time dilation .
Seen a graph on time dilation, its a hockey stick , goes gently up till about 0.8 then by .9 it's skyrockets.
 
Why is there a 1/4 c speed limit is the mystery?

It's a self imposed speed limit due to time dilation.and limit to 0.5 warp.
An hour at impulse getting out if a system is no problem but still have to reset clocks to beacons regularly.
Warp has no time dilation .
Seen a graph on time dilation, its a hockey stick , goes gently up till about 0.8 then by .9 it's skyrockets.

According to the Enterprise-D tech manual, it's limited to 0.25c because of the time dilation issues.
 
It's a self imposed speed limit due to time dilation.and limit to 0.5 warp.
According to the Enterprise-D tech manual, it's limited to 0.25c because of the time dilation issues.
So, if the safety of the universe is at hand, then they can bypass the artificial speed limit anytime they need to do it. :shrug:

Early in The Corbomite Maneuver, the Cube first approached the Enterprise at the speed of light (did it have full time dilation and mass effects :eek: ?). During the escape maneuver, the Cube was able to close in on the Enterprise when she was at Warp 3. Did the Cube really travel at the speed of light using a warp drive to run at warp one? Later, Balok's ship towed the Enterprise at 0.64 c. (It would take 7-8 months just to travel one light year, so, their designation must have been really close.) Balok may have been using a warp drive system to tow at sublight speeds since their Cubic demonstrated the First Federation had FTL capability. When Kirk broke free, the Enterprise was using only warp drive initially (a warp drive tug of war?), then threw in impulse drive at the end to provide enough power to "fake-break" Balok's drive system.
 
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(It would take 7-8 months just to travel one light year, so, their designation must have been really close.)

Probably there was no destination as such, and the towing was the test and nothing but the test - but Balok did accuse our heroes of trespassing on First Federation star systems, so we might do well to assume they were inside one at that time, and a planet or five really were nearby and would have offered the pretext for the internment threat.

Was the Cube a real spacecraft, or just a projection? It did read as a solid block rather than a mechanism; perhaps it didn't actually move?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Tmp Kirk orders warp .5 and after the wormhole there at warp .8
Though they probably breaking the rules due to immanent death coming.
 
Tmp Kirk orders warp .5 and after the wormhole there at warp .8
Though they probably breaking the rules due to immanent death coming.
Yes. Everything was rushed. Leaving dock early, less than a full crew aboard, Kirk ordering full impulse ("Ahead warp... point-five."). And you left out some important in between data. 1.6 hours later they were passing Jupiter and Kirk recorded a log entry saying that to get the earliest intercept point with the Bogey he was going to risk engaging the unbalanced warp engines while still within the Solar system. Sulu accelerated up to near the threshold (which takes enormous energy), presumably to minimize transition shock. But they were at warp one when the wormhole formed. After they dropped back sublight, they had lost a little kinetic energy, but were still "coasting" at 0.8c -- near what they'd been traveling at when they entered warp. The high sublight speeds were both for the emergency situation and due to uncertainty about the warp drive.

The TNG Tech Manual says that the .25c "speed limit" is for normal operations, to minimize disorientation and having to constantly readjust both clocks and perceptions. Usually, a ship warps in close to their destination and is fine maneuvering for a few minutes or hours at those fractional-light speeds. Emergencies and combat? Do what ya gotta. If you're dead, it's not going to matter that the ship's chronometers are out of sync.
 
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