DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[TREK_GOD_1]

Spider-Man is an Avenger, and has pretty consistently been a major part of Marvel's other team-up comics pretty much since they started doing them, so I really don't see where he's ever been that independent.

Spider-Man was not a member of a team for decades after his creation, and in that time, his attempts to join any group (e.g. Amazing Spider-Man #1--proving he was not fit for one / Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5) ended with his loner status intact.. Further, team-ups do not invalidate his aforementioned loner status as they were one-offs, not a continuing team book like Power Man and Iron Fist. His life as a loner in and out of costume were the defining poles of his characterization.

Hmm...yeah, I can see that. He did feel rather tacked on in Civil War (a film I largely find unenjoyable anyway)

Aside from a few Cap-centric moments, yeah, that's the case with this film and it does not age well.

Now, my main exposure to Spider-man was via the cartoons, and some comics prior to the movies, but yeah he definitely always felt like a loner. And that was part of his appeal was this teen struggling with his sense of self and feeling alone with the burden he carried. Even as a teen that was something that appealed to me, and still does.

That is what set him apart from the rest of the Silver/Bronze Age Marvel characters--not only was he a loner (who had to work to open himself up to those in his civilian peer group), but as a crimefighter, he was misunderstood, often accused of crimes (including murder) and never had the support system of teams, because his nature was one of the outsider, not a joiner squealing "Mister Stark! M-mister Stark! C-can I--" as seen in most of his latest film incarnation.

I can see where the MCU is coming from but it wasn't a Spider-man interpretation I find enjoyable.

Agreed.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Don't start again. We just got this thread back on topic.

 

[Nerys Myk]

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Not movies, but one of the features of Day 2 of the DC Fandome next week will be a reproduction of the Superman radio show from original scripts, with a rotating voice cast including Tim Daly, Wilson Cruz, Daniel Dae Kim, Jason Alexander, Terry Crews, Giancarlo Esposito, Jason Isaacs, Richard Kind, CCH Pounder, Anthony Rapp, Yolonda Ross, Tony Shalhoub, Henry Winkler, Alfre Woodard and Constance Zimmer.

And Ray Fisher now claims new DC Films President Walter Hamada offered to "throw Joss Whedon and Jon Berg under the bus" if he'd relent on Geoff Johns, prompting this statement by Warner Bros.:


"In July, Ray Fisher’s representatives asked DC Films President Walter Hamada to talk to Mr. Fisher about his concerns during the production of Justice League. The two had previously spoken when Mr. Hamada asked him to reprise his role as Cyborg in Warner Bros.' upcoming Flash movie, together with other members of the Justice League.

"In their July conversation, Mr. Fisher recounted disagreements he’d had with the film’s creative team regarding his portrayal of Cyborg, and complained that his suggested script revisions were not adopted. Mr. Hamada explained that creative differences are a normal part of the production process, and that a film’s writer/director ultimately has to be in charge of these matters.

"Notably, Mr. Hamada also told Mr. Fisher that he would elevate his concerns to WarnerMedia so they could conduct an investigation. At no time did Mr. Hamada ever 'throw anyone under the bus,' as Mr. Fisher has falsely claimed, or render any judgments about the Justice League production, in which Mr. Hamada had no involvement, since filming occurred before Mr. Hamada was elevated to his current position.

"While Mr. Fisher never alleged any actionable misconduct against him, WarnerMedia nonetheless initiated an investigation into the concerns he’d raised about his character’s portrayal. Still not satisfied, Mr. Fisher insisted that WarnerMedia hire an independent third party investigator.

"This investigator has attempted multiple times to meet with Mr. Fisher to discuss his concerns but, to date, Mr. Fisher has declined to speak to the investigator. Warner Bros. remains committed to accountability and to the well-being of every cast and crew member on each of its productions. It also remains committed to investigating any specific and credible allegation of misconduct, which thus far Mr. Fisher has failed to provide."

 

[StCoop]

Fisher really comes across as a total nutjob at this point, and the lack of support for him from the rest of the cast speaks volumes.

 

[Captaindemotion]

How to win friends and influence in Hollywood, by Ray Fisher

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Fair-sounding response from WB, Fisher probably needs to put up something more tangible if he’s going to continue.

 

[Anwar]

Spider-Man was not a member of a team for decades after his creation, and in that time, his attempts to join any group (e.g. Amazing Spider-Man #1--proving he was not fit for one / Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5) ended with his loner status intact.. Further, team-ups do not invalidate his aforementioned loner status as they were one-offs, not a continuing team book like Power Man and Iron Fist. His life as a loner in and out of costume were the defining poles of his characterization

Not workable in the MCU and how they put real effort into connecting things.

That is what set him apart from the rest of the Silver/Bronze Age Marvel characters--not only was he a loner (who had to work to open himself up to those in his civilian peer group), but as a crimefighter, he was misunderstood, often accused of crimes (including murder) and never had the support system of teams, because his nature was one of the outsider, not a joiner squealing "Mister Stark! M-mister Stark! C-can I--" as seen in most of his latest film incarnation.

A truly ineffective loner, seeing how close he was to the FF and even was friends with the X-Men during the 70s.

 

[Saul]

Fair-sounding response from WB, Fisher probably needs to put up something more tangible if he’s going to continue.

It's difficult when it's one man against a giant beast like WB. Someone else would need to come forward. I get the impression that there is a silent approval of his words but it's a tough one.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Isn't it weird when someone clicks the like-button on me calling out somebody else over going off-topic, then proceeding to take the bait and continue the off-topic discussion?! Seems weird to me.

Anyway, if what Kevin Smith heard from crew-members of JL is true, Whedon, Berg and Johns badmouthed Snyder's version of the film that the cast and crew just worked hard on. That's douchey, maybe, but not actionable, so, yeah, Fisher needs to get more specific with his accusations. I mean, he's pretty specific with his accusation against Hamada, so why can't he be more specific about what Whedon, Berg and Johns did that was so horrible.

 

[StCoop]

I mean, he's pretty specific with his accusation against Hamada, so why can't he be more specific about what Whedon, Berg and Johns did that was so horrible.

They wanted him to say, "Booyah"?

I actually think they're so vague because deep down he realises how petty they're going to sound to people.

He just seems pissed off that he went from having a major role in the original version to a minor role in the Whedon version. And all the people he rails against (Whedon especially) might indeed be assholes but that's a long way from actual misconduct.

The worst thing about it is how he makes it harder for people who come forward with real complaints in the future.

 

[kirk55555]

They wanted him to say, "Booyah"?

The fact that he seems to have a problem with saying that shows how shitty a Cyborg he was, regardless of the script. If people actually did/said shitty things to him then that's wrong, obviously, but of all the JL actors he was obviously the most pretentious/Snyder-stan ish, and it shows. You can tell that he doesn't work well when watching the film, he's extremely monotone and he just doesn't feel like an interesting version of Cyborg. Part of that is the script, but even with the film being made less Snyder-ish he still just doesn't work. I won't miss (hopefully) not seeing him as Cyborg again, although (like I said) if any of his complaints have substance, then I obviously don't support the people that might have treated him badly.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

And Ray Fisher shoots back, producing evidence (though I'd hardly call it proof) that he did have a Zoom meeting with the independent investigator, while also questioning the independence of said investigator.

 

[Dick Whitman]

This definitely has the appearance of him being emboldened by the echo chamber of social media supporters to go after former coworkers. Supporters who are well intended. But what exactly are they supporting? That Ray Fisher did not get along with his bosses. It’s got to be something serious to go to this level. If he does not have serious issues beyond conflicting personalities, it does not look good to him. Will those who supported him on vague outrage ever be willing to see anything else? Unlikely.

If something really happened people should face the consequences. To be honest most of the people he has accused I am not a fan of their work. Geoff Johns is one of the most overrated writers in the history of comics. I would be very pleased if he no longer worked on DC or it’s movies or tv shows! BUT his leaving will need to be tied to real proof of misconduct . Obviously quality of work has rarely lead to anyone losing a job in the entertainment industry.

 

[JD]

This whole situation just gets crazier and crazier.
I'm a big fan of Joss Whedon and I've followed his career pretty closes, and most of the people who work with him seem to really like him, so it always seemed a bit odd to me that he was supposed so horrible on the JL set.
I can't get over Fish supposedly trying to give story notes on JL. It's gotta take balls the size of the Rock of Gibralter to come in as a more or less unknown and try to tell people like Joss Whedon how to write or direct. Unless of course Whedon invited input from him, but from the stories going around, it doesn't necessarily sound like that was the case.

 

[StCoop]

And Ray Fisher shoots back, producing evidence (though I'd hardly call it proof) that he did have a Zoom meeting with the independent investigator, while also questioning the independence of said investigator.

Had a call with them but once again refused to discuss any details of his alleged complaints. If he won't even discuss therm with the person hired to investigate them that's his problem.

 

[Christopher]

I can't get over Fish supposedly trying to give story notes on JL. It's gotta take balls the size of the Rock of Gibralter to come in as a more or less unknown and try to tell people like Joss Whedon how to write or direct. Unless of course Whedon invited input from him, but from the stories going around, it doesn't necessarily sound like that was the case.

Nothing wrong with the participants in a production offering suggestions. Film is a collaborative process, after all, and good ideas can come from anywhere. However, Fisher has no reason to get upset that they didn't use his suggestions. It's not like they were required to.

 

[Dick Whitman]

From the little we know Ray Fisher had a close collaboration with Zack Snyder. Which is Fisher’s whole film experience before Snyder left Justice League. Which seems to have given him the false impression that directors always work that closely with all actors.

My suspicion on why his cast mates have been quiet - they have been in business much longer. They know that often being an actor means making the director and studio happy. Making the best of ideas you do not always like. I have recently reading about the career of George Peppard. He seemed to get in conflicts on almost every film and tv show he did. Not well liked by his coworkers. He continued to work his whole life. But that attitude affected his reputation. He was a true movie star in the 60s and that profile allowed him to be ass after his star faded. Which allowed him to still get tv parts based on his name later in life. But actors have to reach that level of fame before the system is willing to tolerate egos.

 

[StCoop]

My suspicion on why his cast mates have been quiet - they have been in business much longer. They know that often being an actor means making the director and studio happy. Making the best of ideas you do not always like.

I hadn't realised until I looked him up on IMDB that he's only had one other acting job since 'Justice League'. He's either very picky or no one's interested in hiring him. Maybe he's hoping for a nice fat cheque from Warner's to pay the bills?

 

[JD]

Nothing wrong with the participants in a production offering suggestions. Film is a collaborative process, after all, and good ideas can come from anywhere. However, Fisher has no reason to get upset that they didn't use his suggestions. It's not like they were required to.

Sure, but it strikes me as the kind of thing that should be invited, and if Joss Whedon was open to it then there's no problem, but if he wasn't and Fisher took it upon himself to start insisting he change the script, that strikes me as kind of a bad move for a new actor to pull on a writer/director who's been working pretty consistently in the industry for almost 20 years.