Honestly, I feel they should have skipped Khan here. Marcus is a perfectly serviceable villain on his own.
Why Section 31?
- Thread starter Albertese
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Honestly, I feel they should have skipped Khan here. Marcus is a perfectly serviceable villain on his own.
Completely agree. Honestly S31 is plenty enough of a villain and no need to undercut Peter Weller's performance as the big bad.
Oh, I really enjoyed the idea of two villains with Kirk the lukewarm wiener in between...
S31 is more than one thing, too. Sometimes it's part of SF Intel, sometimes it's a wholly separate cabal. Which is no wonder since Star Trek spans centuries. And I can so see a branch of SF Intel in the 23rd century deriving endless satisfaction from naming themselves after an ancient cabal, in an in-joke basically nobody outside the spook community will get.
Timo Saloniemi
S31 is more than one thing, too. Sometimes it's part of SF Intel, sometimes it's a wholly separate cabal. Which is no wonder since Star Trek spans centuries. And I can so see a branch of SF Intel in the 23rd century deriving endless satisfaction from naming themselves after an ancient cabal, in an in-joke basically nobody outside the spook community will get.
Timo Saloniemi
I agree. I just think Harrison as the other S31 actor vs. Marcus is more interesting than Khan.
I found the entire Section 31 thing silly. I feel like Starfleet would be beyond that kind of secret agent thing.
Except for all the admirals who like doing super secret stuff.
All nation/planetary states have secret agents, even the logical Vulcans. The UFP does not operate in a perfect universe
I like them in their role to spur the conversation of idealism bs pragmatism and confronting idealists with the notion they like the meat but don’t want to see how it’s made. But I agree when they are more mainstream it starts to undermine the idealism completely rather than just challenging it. I hope there’s a plot point sometime after Disco season 3 that it was officially shut down but then continued in secret.
The other side of section 31 challenging whether idealism is sufficient is the idealistic side needs to be able to be able to challenge whether backstabbing and bribing in the shadows is necessary. And the more mainstream they get the more you lose that second half.
The other side of section 31 challenging whether idealism is sufficient is the idealistic side needs to be able to be able to challenge whether backstabbing and bribing in the shadows is necessary. And the more mainstream they get the more you lose that second half.
Not everyone.I've always thought that it is anathema to what Starfleet and the Federation are supposed to be about.
You're talking about Section 31? All that "secret agent" and "mysterious man in the shadows" (Sloan) was just so stereotypical. Leave that stuff to Bond, James Bond.
...and that's why they're the bad guys?
I mean, I thought it was pretty clear they were the bad guys and that we should not be cheering them on.
Starfleet has "secret agents" who have nothing to do with Section 31. Starfleet Intelligence has been around in the franchise long before Section 31 was ever dreamed up, with a DS9 episode all about O'Brien on assignment for Starfleet Intelligence where he had to infiltrate the Orion Syndicate and had many meetings with an Intelligence handler who was essentially a "mysterious man in the shadows." Hell, Tuvok was on assignment to infiltrate the Maquis at the start of Voyager, probably at the behest of Starfleet Intelligence.
Kirk and Spock infiltrating a Romulan ship. Yeah, that spy stuff is just not for them...???
SI is the open and known one, 31 is its secret hidden subdivision (in DS9 and ENT).
Starfleet Security, apparently headed by Thomas Henry in TNG, seems to consist of regular security for all facilities, SI for external intelligence, 31 for sabotage and interference, and Internal Affairs for internal surveillance and counterintelligence.
Starfleet Security, apparently headed by Thomas Henry in TNG, seems to consist of regular security for all facilities, SI for external intelligence, 31 for sabotage and interference, and Internal Affairs for internal surveillance and counterintelligence.
And then Picard and Data infiltrating Romulus itself.
The "James Bond : 007" is more akin to "StarFleet Intelligence", the overt governmental face like MI6 is in the 007
'SD-6' from "Alias" is closer to what 'Section 31' is supposed to be.
Section 31 needs to closer to a Clandestine Organization like SD-6
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Point of Order: James Bond is with MI6, Britain's external intelligence service, essentially Britain's CIA analogue. MI5 is an internal security service, Britain's FBI analogue.
Plus all the other disguises and secret missions they do.
I admit, I thought Picard's commando mission against the Cardassians was ridiculous. Doesn't SI have people for that?
Picard as a commando was completely ridiculous.
Technically, I suppose you could call Section 31 the black ops division of Starfleet Intelligence in the ENT and DISCO era.
It's completely independent but Federation affiliated in DS9 due to the events of DISCO Season 2.
I assume they saw Picard do DIE HARD once and said, "This guy seems up to it."
Remember, they needed someone with specific experience with that particular type of radiation, and Picard was the only Starfleet officer still on active duty who did.
