I don't like it when being part of a shared universe robs a character of their individuality, and that's what happened, IMO, to Peter with Civil War and Homecoming.
DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
I seriously don't see any robbed individuality with Peter. Honestly, I'd love to read more in depth thoughts on this. What did you perceive as being robbed of his individuality?
In Civil War, his only purpose is to be Tony's 'secret weapon', and then he spends almost the entirety of Homecoming being 'held back' by Tony either directly (the boat 'rescue') or indirectly (through Happy following him around).
The thing that makes Spider-Man so appealing to me that makes him my favorite Marvel superhero in general is that he doesn't really answer to anyone and is allowed to 'be his own man' and make his own mistakes (and learn from those mistakes), and the MCU version of the character was decidedly not that kind of character through his first two MCU appearances. He finally got a chance to start becoming that character in Far from Home, even though there were still people holding him back and trying to tell him what to do in that film, which is why it didn't reach the fullness of its potential.
My favorite live-action iteration of the character is, to this date, Toby Maguire's, because he and Sam Raimi captured everything that I love about the character and have loved about the character since he first appeared on my radar back in 1994 with the FOX Kids animated series.
Tom will hopefully get further chances to make his version of the character more appealing to me than he has been with Spider-Man 3 and whatever other appearances he gets to make going forward, provided that Sony stops leaning so heavily on his place in the MCU and just tells the stories they want to tell with him either by himself or as a bit player in other movies.
It should be noted that I don't know how he was handled in Infinity War and Endgame given that I've not seen them, but the precedent established by both Civil War and Homecoming doesn't really give me confidence in those films treating him better.
The thing that makes Spider-Man so appealing to me that makes him my favorite Marvel superhero in general is that he doesn't really answer to anyone and is allowed to 'be his own man' and make his own mistakes (and learn from those mistakes), and the MCU version of the character was decidedly not that kind of character through his first two MCU appearances. He finally got a chance to start becoming that character in Far from Home, even though there were still people holding him back and trying to tell him what to do in that film, which is why it didn't reach the fullness of its potential.
My favorite live-action iteration of the character is, to this date, Toby Maguire's, because he and Sam Raimi captured everything that I love about the character and have loved about the character since he first appeared on my radar back in 1994 with the FOX Kids animated series.
Tom will hopefully get further chances to make his version of the character more appealing to me than he has been with Spider-Man 3 and whatever other appearances he gets to make going forward, provided that Sony stops leaning so heavily on his place in the MCU and just tells the stories they want to tell with him either by himself or as a bit player in other movies.
It should be noted that I don't know how he was handled in Infinity War and Endgame given that I've not seen them, but the precedent established by both Civil War and Homecoming doesn't really give me confidence in those films treating him better.
Yeah, I can see that. It explains, in part, why his appearance in Civil War was just not appealing to me.
Whether you like or not, they're not going to act like Spidey exists on his own and no other heroic characters exist.
That's not what I want; what I want is for a Spider-Man movie that is only about Spider-Man.
You bring up the Tobey Maguire movies, where Spidey WAS the only hero in his world. That's never going to be repeated in the MCU, especially not in MCU New York.
The Cap movies were never only about Cap, the Iron Man movies weren't just about Iron Man, the Thor movies still had ties to the rest of the Universe.
Same with MCU, they're never going to be "just about him". The MCU isn't repeating the same mistakes the comics did by making certain series be too separated from the rest like X-Men in the 1980s.
I think Iron Man Three rules, and I don't care who knows it.
It's his story-arc. Literally. This version of Spider-Man was written in a way to undergo that journey of finding confidence in himself. That's what Tony saw in him. Not a secret weapon. But someone like him, he was scared of what he was capable of needed guidance to achieve his full potential. But also not be afraid to lean on others for help, something Tony never could. And in the end of Far From Home, Peter got to that point. "I am capable. I can do this. I am a strong person that can and will save the day. And sometimes I can do that alone. Sometimes I will need help and it's ok to do that."
As with all comic book characters, there are several version. We all cling to the version in the comics we identify the most with. When a version is created for the big screen, writers have several options from the comics to find inspiration from. Sometimes, as a viewer, we will resonate with that version on the screen. Sometimes we won't. That's ok. The writers/producers/directors of these films are aware they can't appeal to everyone. So it's pretty cool you actually got a version of Spider-Man you love in Tobey's movies.
For me, I can understand if people who think 'independence' is THE central character trait of Spider-man didn't like Civil War or Homecoming. I just can't agree that independence IS the central character trait of Spider-man.
The Spider-man I grew up with (in the 90s cartoons and comics from all eras) was independent a fair amount of the time, but he also teamed up with other people a lot and those team-ups weren't always Spidey-led. I have absolutely zero problem with a young, impressionable Spider-man starting out by putting his trust in an obviously trustworthy, heroic mentor before growing into his own over time. And I have zero fear that he won't grow into his own over time (unless Sony pulls the plug on the whole collaboration, that is). As many already mentioned, that process already started in Far From Home.
The central characteristics of Spider-man, to me, are all about the heart, the humor and the relatability of a regular kid/guy trying to muddle through when he is, very often, in over his head. Holland has all of those in spades and not only that, but he is, imo, the only live action portrayal that's ever managed to pull off all of those at the same time.
The Spider-man I grew up with (in the 90s cartoons and comics from all eras) was independent a fair amount of the time, but he also teamed up with other people a lot and those team-ups weren't always Spidey-led. I have absolutely zero problem with a young, impressionable Spider-man starting out by putting his trust in an obviously trustworthy, heroic mentor before growing into his own over time. And I have zero fear that he won't grow into his own over time (unless Sony pulls the plug on the whole collaboration, that is). As many already mentioned, that process already started in Far From Home.
The central characteristics of Spider-man, to me, are all about the heart, the humor and the relatability of a regular kid/guy trying to muddle through when he is, very often, in over his head. Holland has all of those in spades and not only that, but he is, imo, the only live action portrayal that's ever managed to pull off all of those at the same time.
I think Iron Man Three rules, and I don't care who knows it.
Me too.
I think Iron Man Three rules, and I don't care who knows it.
So happy to hear I'm not alone.
So happy to hear I'm not alone.
I was soured on Iron Man 3's treatment of Mandarin (the twist that he was just an actor). But when I looked at it without comparing to the comics and enjoying Trevor for who he was (basically, when I lightened up so that I could enjoy the movie) then it turned that all around for me. "All Hail the King" then totally took away all of my previous worries to begin with.
The story involving Tony dealing with New York and being Iron Man, though, always loved that. And I've never not enjoyed Guy Pierce, even when his movies aren't always the best.
Iron Man 2 is the low point in the franchise for me, and Iron Man 3 is an excellent recovery.
Wow, not that this has anything to do with DC movies. So bringing it back. Anybody see an even newer cut for Justice League? It's looking better and better!
(I'm just joking by the way, it's just a fun fan made trailer, relax everyone taking this too seriously)
Agreed. Once I got over my nerd rage I realized that the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 was absolutely brilliant.
Movies Tony Stark was far from obviously trustworthy. We know that he was the one who on a quick whim created Ultron, for which despite the destruction he wasn't sorry, he somehow gets Peter to believe that he helps the little guy, Spider-Man claims to be a big fan of Captain America but believes he's in the wrong for some reason and so much so he must be taken down, we see that Captain America remains pretty popular among the public despite that Iron Man fought him and he remains a criminal fugitive, all the other Avenges (aside from retired War Machine) leave Stark but Spider-Man doesn't know or doesn't care.
Tony being sorry - distraught, even - for Ultron is literally the entire point of civil war. And Captain America being beloved during his fugitive phase was never shown anywhere. Yes, most of the Avengers believed he went too far with registration, but they also still trusted him in general as shown in Endgame.
Regrets it, at least the destruction, happened (though he thought a bigger risk with Vision was still needed), seems to mostly blame others, and to still believe that centralizing power, surveillance and authority despite the risks of doing so is still the best way to get protection and control.
He was used as a role model/spokesman in a government-mandated-for-schools fitness video.
I don't think the comic book character would want to drop out of high school at 15 or 16.
I find it amazing that Marvel Studios ripped off the Batman Forever Riddler and got nearly no bashing for doing so.
By the end of the movie, Killian was a convincingly credible threat. Nigma in the movie wasn't even close, still way too cartoony and over the top. Even if similar in concept, Iron Man 3 improved on it in so many ways that it was no longer fair to compare.
A closer Marvel/Riddler rip-off is Electro in the Amazing Spider-Man movie. Complete with both movies being equally unwatchable.
(Besides which, we're already past the point of no returns watching a movie about a brilliant billionaire fighting bad guys with a suit and gadgets that allow him to keep up with a league of heroes out for justice)
