But then they annexed Cardassian systems, so are to understand that they created an exclave that is located far, far away from the "main body" of their empire (however that main body is supposed to look) ?
Travel times, galaxy maps and Voyager's mission.
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But then they annexed Cardassian systems, so are to understand that they created an exclave that is located far, far away from the "main body" of their empire (however that main body is supposed to look) ?
Yes, basically. The Klingon-held former Cardassian worlds are 'cut off' from the Empire but they're allowed transit? of Federation space, and even if not they'll plough through anyway. There can also be routes that go a mere 10 ly up or below the Federation disk in the area for easier access through interstellar space.
Think of it like Kaliningrad for modern day Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad
Russia has that one little area cut-off by the rest of Europe.
And since Space is 3D, I'm sure there are paths above or below that can easily reach the place.
It's highly unlikely that it's completely block 360° spherically.
If it is blocked, "Cloak" your vessel to get there and sneak in if nearby powers won't let you in =D.
Yes, that's why I asked whether we are to take it that the Klingons created an exclave.
Though the (assumed) distance should create some problems, whether the Klingons are able to traverse it freely or not. It would be more difficult to defend, for one.
The treaty at the end of the Dominion War said that all borders would be returned to the state they were before the Dominion War, if I'm not mistaken, that means the Klingons keep/regain their Cardassian conquests.
Even with it's relative closeness to the Russian "mainland" and the way it can easily be reached via the Baltic sea from St.Petersburg Kaliningrad faces some unique problems due to its nature (though to be fair, from what I understand those issues don't arise completely from its exclave status...)
Yea and the Klingons have a tapered off border south-eastish where the Federation also ends, though some maps have a huge federation block far bigger than the federation, I think the Klingons can 'officially' tranverse from that area to their new colonies.
Wouldn't only solar systems (possibly with a zone around them, i.e. 1-2 lys) be considered sovereign space and all the space between them be international space? It's how we treat the seas/oceans today with only 20 miles out being territorial waters while everything out from that being international waters. You would still want to protect trade routes as we do today. Boundaries in space should be very rare as done with the Romulan Neutral Zone.
What downside would there be to declaring emptiness your sovereign property? Allowing the enemy to move between your systemic holdings would be suicidal. Reserving the right to blow him out of the sky in the unlikely case you actually manage to intercept him in the emptiness is only prudent.
In practice, any nation with inland waters considers those waters its sovereign area, and will have the will and often the means to sink anybody venturing there in times of crisis. Trek nations would never not be in crisis. And they would all necessarily be equipped to deal with emptiness patrol and intercept issues, to the degree practicable, emptiness being what most of their empires would consist of whenever they featured more than one star system.
By far the best way to protect trade routes would be to shoot everybody at sight. Otherwise, the enemy could always amass a decisive force to ambush your convoys, or snipe at individual ships at will. And making it legal for you to kill and illegal for him to reciprocate is always helpful in avoiding or postponing crises, or igniting them if need be, even if it plays no real role in actual combat.
Timo Saloniemi
In practice, any nation with inland waters considers those waters its sovereign area, and will have the will and often the means to sink anybody venturing there in times of crisis. Trek nations would never not be in crisis. And they would all necessarily be equipped to deal with emptiness patrol and intercept issues, to the degree practicable, emptiness being what most of their empires would consist of whenever they featured more than one star system.
By far the best way to protect trade routes would be to shoot everybody at sight. Otherwise, the enemy could always amass a decisive force to ambush your convoys, or snipe at individual ships at will. And making it legal for you to kill and illegal for him to reciprocate is always helpful in avoiding or postponing crises, or igniting them if need be, even if it plays no real role in actual combat.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, going through enemy territory by force isn't the only way: for "Way of the Warrior", the Klingons apparently traversed plenty of space completely unnoticed, many interpretations making at least part of that space UFP territory. Illegal as all hell, no doubt - but the issues with intercepting cloaked forces mean that it still happens. Add "Rules of Engagement" and the idea that Klingons conduct their general logistics under cloak (a far more useful application for the tech than combat, where you have to become visible for fighting anyway).
...And then detract "Sons and Daughters", where for some inexplicable reason we see wartime logistics being conducted, when obviously we should see nothing. But perhaps the Klingons have resigned to the fact that Dominion tech can penetrate cloaks across dozens of lightyears?
Timo Saloniemi
That requires all the signatory powers to recognize those Boundaries along with foreign powers who aren't signatories to respect it. Boundaries are realistically what you can enforce with "military might" and tell people whether or not you can cross without having to go to war or having a local skirmish, just by showing up with some of your vessels and telling people to respect your boundaries and hoping that they will.
The Dominions Anti-Cloaking scans seem to be pretty effective, so having Shields up instead of being "Cloaked" & Shield-less seems pretty advisable.
And under Cloak, there seems to be a "Speed Limit" for each cloaking technology before you start giving away some form of emission like when they stated that Romulan Cloaking Devices limit the vessel to Warp 6 or else:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cloaking_device
In 2371 it was not commonly understood by Starfleet personnel that cloaked ships radiate a slight subspace variance at warp speeds. These variances typically vanished once the vessel drops out of warp
(DS9: "The Search, Part I") If a cloaked ship exceeded its maximum propulsion capacity, it would not be able to fully cloak, and would appear on navigational sensors as a sensor echo. (TNG: "Tin Man")
Using modified cloaks, a combined fleet of Romulan and Cardassian warships attempted to conduct a sneak attack on Founders' homeworld in 2371. They determined that as long as their fleet traveled under the speed of warp 6 their warp signatures would remain undetected, even while under cloak. This modification, however, did not prevent the fleet from being detected by the sensors aboard Deep Space 9. In this case, the cloaked fleet appeared as high concentrations of tetryon particles. (DS9: "The Die is Cast")
Imagine being capped at Warp 6 when sneaking around during the Dominion War. The fastest Dominion vessel was stated to travel at Warp 7, so sneaking around seems to be a bad option if they are able to go faster than what you can under cloak.
First sentence - Good. Absolutely correct. I put a lot of effort into getting an 'official' ST map properly sized in our galaxy. I have it HERE. I had to create two in-between maps, to get a scale I could work with on both, so its as accurate as it can get, without me creating a file size in the uber-gigabytes. Two days after I did that, I finally found ONE that was accurate like mine (although still showing the region a tad larger than I have). I've been doing fantasy maps for fun and professionally since 2000, so I am pretty good at using different maps to get very precise scales. Space is a little trickier, but as others have noted, our galaxy is (comparatively) pretty flat. Just thank the space gods we weren't born in a globular galaxy.
As for the second part... rubbish. One of the questions I used to get asked a LOT when I did maps for D&D is "why are there so few settlements?" The answer is simple, and applies to Scify maps as well - they DO NOT SHOW EVERYTHING. They only show a small sampling of 'interesting' places, either for an RPG, or some other type of franchise. No-one cares about all the tiny villages (or rural farm planets), so they aren't in the lore, and thus don't make it onto maps. And just as there are thousands of towns all over the place you don't see, there are thousands of systems you don't see. Vulcan is 'right next door' to Earth, and yet you can fit a boatload of unheard of worlds in 16.5 LY. ST maps - like every other 'galaxy map' (especially real ones) - contain far less than 1% of what is out there. I am actually shocked that IP's like Mass Effect include the whole galaxy - its certainly not needed. Thats just writers not being able to visualize the material they are working with. And don't even get me started on writers... I had a LOT more respect for them before I started working with them. LOL
P.S. - I joined this site because I found this thread, and I need a decent map of Delta Quadrant powers for my own project. I'll probably stick around - I've been watching Trek since TOS aired live. Cheers
First, welcome to the board.
Second, please take some time to review the posting rules, pinned at the top of this forum. Specifically, the one about resurrecting dead threads.
This one has been dead almost 2 years. Let’s let it Rest In Peace, shall we? Feel free to start a new thread and link this one if you like.
There’s also this current thread, if you’re interested: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/3-d-star-map-of-the-trekverse.311438/
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