Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 1x02 - "Envoys"

[Kpnuts]

I'm liking Mariner a lot, and she definitely isn't a Mary Sue. I just find it tedious that she's the heroic one who's always saving the day while Boimler is the whining wuss who's the source of ridicule. Any chance the latter can do something great for once at Mariner's expense or is that not allowed because he's a white male?

 

[KennyB]

How much of the show I end up watching or how long I remain in the forums remains to be seen.

So why announce “I’m out!”?

 

[Michael]

No, it's because she's a Mary Sue …

It's not a term I like or use often, and it may not be a perfect fit, but it seems like it's the angle they're going with on her considering she gets to cause the problems AND be the solutions to them and have no repercussions for her reckless actions.

Considering what a charged trigger word “Mary Sue” has become, and the fact that you almost seem to acknowledge that it doesn't really apply here, makes me wonder about your intentions of bringing it up in the first place. Do you want to sincerely discuss the show and what's actually in it or do you want to get a rise out of people and stir up shit?

I have no problem with her being a female character. I have a problem with her being a loud and obnoxious character who's a source of grief for the other main character and her creating the problems in the episode and be the solution to them and for her actions to have no repercussions.

None of which has anything to do with what a “Mary Sue” actually is supposed to be. Let's just keep it at you not liking Mariner, alright? No need to inject labels into the discussion that don't fit and only serve to poison the discourse.

 

[Trekker4747]

Also, why do you call Boimler "Boimer" a couple of times, then revert back to calling him "Purple Hair"? Both make it seem like you are purposely trying to be insulting to the character, the show, and fans who like it. It's getting tiring already.

I'm not trying to be insulting to the character, it's that I don't really know his name beyond it being an uncommon one that I cannot spell, and until it latches on in my head I'll probably just stick to calling him "Purple Hair" because I don't even know what his first name is.

Considering what a charged trigger word “Mary Sue” has become, and the fact that you almost seem to acknowledge that it doesn't really apply here, makes me wonder about your intentions of bringing it up in the first place. Do you want to sincerely discuss the show and what's actually in it or do you want to get a rise out of people and stir up shit?

Using it in the first place was sort of a knee-jerk reaction, I'm not trying to stir anything up. It's just annoying to see a character strutting around saying, "Look at how awesome I am and how lame everyone else is!" and that being pretty much their entire thing.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I'm not trying to be insulting to the character, it's that I don't really know his name beyond it being an uncommon one that I cannot spell, and until it latches on in my head I'll probably just stick to calling him "Purple Hair" because I don't even know what his first name is.

Then look it up

Using it in the first place was sort of a knee-jerk reaction, I'm not trying to stir anything up.

Then stop using it.

 

[NCC-73515]

Brad. Easy enough you'd think XD

 

[Trekker4747]

Then look it up

Nope

Then stop using it.

Yep.

 

[Crewman6]

So why announce “I’m out!”?

In the heat of the moment, I was very angry with the show.

At this point, I'll give it two more episodes. If there isn't a marked improvement, I reserve the right to declare "I'm out" at that point.

 

[KennyB]

In the heat of the moment, I was very angry with the show.

At this point, I'll give it two more episodes. If there isn't a marked improvement, I reserve the right to declare "I'm out" at that point.

I have never in my life been angry with a TV show or a film. I do not understand the concept. I have been disappointed at times....sometimes I shut it off halfway through and go "meh". Life is too short to be ANGRY at a TV show. Seriously. Just watch what you enjoy.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The warp core is beautiful.

 

[Roald]

Wow, loved it..!

I have never in my life been angry with a TV show or a film. I do not understand the concept. I have been disappointed at times....sometimes I shut it off halfway through and go "meh". Life is too short to be ANGRY at a TV show. Seriously. Just watch what you enjoy.

So true.. also never been ‘angry’ with a series as a whole, but just certain elements (like Mirror-Kira, never liked her).. for a positive die-hard fan like me it is just so hard to grasp that any Trekkie would be upset or angry with Lower Decks.. the show is a love letter to Trek in my book!

 

[Trekker4747]

Trek doesn't have a good track record with its "love letters."

 

[Michael]

Trek doesn't have a good track record with its "love letters."

You mean “love letters” like “Relics”, “Trials and Tribble-ations” or the fourth season of Enterprise, which have been hugely unpopular with fans and critics?

 

[mythme]

So Boimler and Mariner are the same age. Last week we learned that Boimler was commissioned in 2379 and they had served together for a year already. If they are the same age, then that must mean they graduated from the Academy at roughly the same time. Yet Mariner served on FIVE different ships, rose in rank then got demoted back down to ensign already? How??? Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[eschaton]

So Boimler and Mariner are the same age. Last week we learned that Boimler was commissioned in 2379 and they had served together for a year already. If they are the same age, then that must mean they graduated from the Academy at roughly the same time. Yet Mariner served on FIVE different ships, rose in rank then got demoted back down to ensign already? How??? Is there something I'm missing here?

Temporal paradox?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

So Boimler and Mariner are the same age. Last week we learned that Boimler was commissioned in 2379 and they had served together for a year already. If they are the same age, then that must mean they graduated from the Academy at roughly the same time. Yet Mariner served on FIVE different ships, rose in rank then got demoted back down to ensign already? How??? Is there something I'm missing here?

Unless Boimler started the academy later than Mariner did. Maybe Marimer joined as a teen and Boimler entered the academy at 20+. Or not. It also might have to do with her parents being Starfleet officers (her mother now a captain and her father an admiral), so they pushed/guided her down a more efficient career path.

But you didn't miss anything. I'm sure there is a general backstory the writers have for Mariner in their minds as to why she served on 5 ships and details on the demotion, but just haven't put that backstory on screen yet. Maybe (or maybe not) they will touch upon some of that backstory in future episodes.

But just going by what we've seen, I'm guessing Mariner's boisterous demeanor and overzealous energy goes hand-in-hand with serving on 5 ships and being demoted. Both of those things serve to inform each other when it comes to Mariner.

Also, not all career paths are the same. Look at Kirk -- and not even Abramsverse Kirk; TOS Kirk works as an example. Considering Kirk was so young when he became captain, there were almost certainly people he graduated with who were not yet starship captains, or captains/commanders at all.

 

[thribs]

So Boimler and Mariner are the same age. Last week we learned that Boimler was commissioned in 2379 and they had served together for a year already. If they are the same age, then that must mean they graduated from the Academy at roughly the same time. Yet Mariner served on FIVE different ships, rose in rank then got demoted back down to ensign already? How??? Is there something I'm missing here?

Not necessarily. Brad could have entered the Academy at a later age while Beckett did at 17 or so.

 

[Ometiklan]

I'm liking Mariner a lot, and she definitely isn't a Mary Sue. I just find it tedious that she's the heroic one who's always saving the day while Boimler is the whining wuss who's the source of ridicule. Any chance the latter can do something great for once at Mariner's expense or is that not allowed because he's a white male?

Enough with the racial crap. How many years and decades do we need to have of Star Trek before people realize that skin color doesn't matter? Boimler is the uptight, inexperienced character. Mariner is the roguish, on-a-starship-since-she-was-a-kid character. It doesn't matter what color their skins are painted. Plus this is episode 2. Boimler will grow and do heroic stuff. Mariner will grow and experience failure too. It's called character development.

So Boimler and Mariner are the same age. Last week we learned that Boimler was commissioned in 2379 and they had served together for a year already. If they are the same age, then that must mean they graduated from the Academy at roughly the same time. Yet Mariner served on FIVE different ships, rose in rank then got demoted back down to ensign already? How??? Is there something I'm missing here?

Boimler says they are "the same age". But what does that mean? Unlike Tendi or Boimler, we don't have any clear indication of exactly when Mariner graduated from the academy. If Mariner is only 2-3 years older than Boimler, that would still be close enough to say they were the "same age". But even with that small difference, Mariner could have served on her multiple starships (especially as a gifted officer, but also a trouble maker; Tendi has served on a space station and a starship and she has only been out of the academy for a year). Given that she was on the Quito for first contact with the Galardionians, it seems like she was a good enough officer to move up quickly to be posted on a front line starship - until her recent demotion.

 

[Michael]

Wait a minute, we are assuming they are in fact the same age because of Boimler's line “We're like the same age”? Well, she isn't confirming it. So why are we taking what he's saying as gospel? Plenty of people I know in real life are in my age group, but are several years younger or older than me.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Enough with the racial crap. How many years and decades do we need to have of Star Trek before people realize that skin color doesn't matter? Boimler is the uptight, inexperienced character. Mariner is the roguish, on-a-starship-since-she-was-a-kid character. It doesn't matter what color their skins are painted.

Or what genitals they were born with.