What else would it be? When someone says they found nothing good in a scene, what else would they be talking about other than their opinion about said scene? Can we please not do this whole “That's only like your opinion” thing here?
Spoilers The clip from Envoys shows what is wrong with Lower Decks
- Thread starter Rhodan
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What else would it be? When someone says they found nothing good in a scene, what else would they be talking about other than their opinion about said scene? Can we please not do this whole “That's only like your opinion” thing here?
Now, the observation that most people who post on a Star Trek forum are predisposed to like things called "Star Trek" is not exactly counterintuitive, despite how nitpicky fans can be. Personally, I'm neither troubled nor chastened when it turns out I'm less impressed by latter day Trek offerings than "most" BBSers.
If you're critically troubled by my expressing a dissenting opinion on some popular things, you could just focus on the positive or encouraging parts of my posts, such as:
You see, it had already occurred to me that the show is likely to be popular before you thought it worthwhile to point out that it's popular in the Lower Decks forum on TrekBBS.
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"Banana -- Hot" would have been funny. However, if critics of the show seek out every joke made by Lower Decks and complains that it could have been replaced with an inside-joke parodying Star Trek (such as "Banana -- hot"), then Lower Decks becomes 100% a Star Trek parody rather than being its own thing.
Granted, I think some parody jokes would be fine -- and "Banana -- hot" would have been funny. But where would that end for the critics of the show? They would have just picked the next thing that could have been an inside-joke parody, making the entire show a parody rather than what it should be -- its own thing with its own style of humor that does not rely solely on inside jokes that only Trekkies would get.
Honestly, I think "tricorder wit the purple stripe" was better for the very reason that it was its own joke that didn't rely on parodying anything. Why is a purple stripe better? I don't know, but the fact we don't know why Mariner would feel a purple stripe is a coveted trait for a tricorder is part of what makes it funny.
It wasn't the funniest thing I ever heard, but it did elicit a slight chuckle from me.
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^ “Banana — hot” is actually a joke from “Second Contact”. Would have seemed out of place to bring it again here.
The more I think about it the more I realize that the “tricorder with the purple stripe” joke actually is a Star Trek in-joke, insofar as that all tricorders across the decades of Star Trek all basically had the same functions and features, with the only way to differentiate them being their ever-redesigned look. “With a purple stripe” pokes fun at that fact.
The more I think about it the more I realize that the “tricorder with the purple stripe” joke actually is a Star Trek in-joke, insofar as that all tricorders across the decades of Star Trek all basically had the same functions and features, with the only way to differentiate them being their ever-redesigned look. “With a purple stripe” pokes fun at that fact.
That's exactly right. I think the point to be made is that if they were swinging for the comic fences a story or a scene with Mariner wishing for something grandiose or impractical that had nothing to do with Star Trek - why a fucking tricorder? - might have landed better. They blew off the potential of the scene premise there.
For a long time fandom had this in-jokey fascination with Sulu and swords, but the source of that running gag wasn't an incident where the character behaved humorously-while-staying-in-character. Instead it was a story beat where the writers looked for an opportunity to have him do something completely unexpected. It's the out-of-left-field and truly novel kind of moments where Trek most predictably falls short these days, which is why it's becoming so hermetic and For Fans Only in its reach. And that's an entirely fair and observant criticism of Lower Decks as a humorous cartoon show so far.
The funniest thing in "Second Contact" was Boimler getting sucked on by the giant spider thing, and it was pretty damn funny.
I considered this when I was writing my post -- i.e., that it could be considered an in-joke.
But it also works on a non-trek level. A non-trekkie audience would quickly understand that a tricorder must be some sort of sensing/measuring device (it's right there in the name), and that same audience can appreciate the absurdity of someone thinking a purple stripe on one somehow makes it coveted enough to wish for.
"The non-fan audience will get the reference and understand why it's a silly request" is not the same as "non fans would find this real funny." Yes, they might laugh at a throwaway in-joke, but that's not the way to bet.
"Let's not be offensive" is probably not tattooed on any talented comedy writer's behind.
So far, this show works as light Star Trek entertainment for trekkies, not all that different from a couple of the Trek Shorts. As a half hour cartoon series it's nothing to get excited about.
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There's a lot of problems with this clip. It's a comic beat, possibly the cold opening of the episode (unrelated to Mariner and Boimler becoming envoys), but outside of the jokes, it doesn't really fit the Star Trek universe. This is a parody clip, and I am really hoping that the show continues to veer away from parody as McMahan insisted it would.
So this entity can create items from air molecules. That's cool, but doesn't replicator do that, in effect at least? Why does Mariner use this wish-granting entity to do something the replicator can give her? The easy answer is that there's limits built in which means a tricorder is not available to be replicated. That's a worrying thought, because it means Starfleet might be undersupplying its own personnel, not providing them with the latest advances or forcing them to utilize subpar technology.
I don't think the purple stripe is part of the joke. It just indicates that is the newest tricorder to an outside observer. The entity and Mariner know the exact specifications, somehow, to this purple tricorder that advance it further than others.
Logistically, beyond the wish for a tricorder, how is this matter-replicating entity so easily captured? It can travel through bulkheads and into a person's sternum, but not through their arms while being wrestled? Mariner was familiar with it as a "trans-dimensional energy being", so maybe she's dealt with this specific species before. She was pretty adamant that it was a bad guy who zaps people (but it never zapped her), and that it could be placed safely inside a storage pod. But then she lets it go to create the tricorder and power crystal, which uses up much of its mass.
As a smaller creature, the entity attempts to kill the Captain, whereas it only wanted Mariner and Tendi to supplicate themselves. Obviously it knows alot (tricorder designs, storage pods), so it probably recognized Captain Freeman, and by killing the Captain, it wanted to take over the ship with little recourse from the crew. I don't know if it died (I would doubt it) or just entered the Captain's body and left of its own accord at some future period (or even possesses her as some plot point in the episode). We'll have to wait and see what the episode gives us.
So, I agree with the OP. The scene could've been better handled, without resorting to a self-referential comedy skit. The idea, already present from the first episode, that these Ensigns just shrug and eye roll when dealt with the cosmic horror of the universe, is great and the bread and butter of McMahan's vision for the show. But they might want to be a little more nuanced in how that is presented at times.
So this entity can create items from air molecules. That's cool, but doesn't replicator do that, in effect at least? Why does Mariner use this wish-granting entity to do something the replicator can give her? The easy answer is that there's limits built in which means a tricorder is not available to be replicated. That's a worrying thought, because it means Starfleet might be undersupplying its own personnel, not providing them with the latest advances or forcing them to utilize subpar technology.
I don't think the purple stripe is part of the joke. It just indicates that is the newest tricorder to an outside observer. The entity and Mariner know the exact specifications, somehow, to this purple tricorder that advance it further than others.
Logistically, beyond the wish for a tricorder, how is this matter-replicating entity so easily captured? It can travel through bulkheads and into a person's sternum, but not through their arms while being wrestled? Mariner was familiar with it as a "trans-dimensional energy being", so maybe she's dealt with this specific species before. She was pretty adamant that it was a bad guy who zaps people (but it never zapped her), and that it could be placed safely inside a storage pod. But then she lets it go to create the tricorder and power crystal, which uses up much of its mass.
As a smaller creature, the entity attempts to kill the Captain, whereas it only wanted Mariner and Tendi to supplicate themselves. Obviously it knows alot (tricorder designs, storage pods), so it probably recognized Captain Freeman, and by killing the Captain, it wanted to take over the ship with little recourse from the crew. I don't know if it died (I would doubt it) or just entered the Captain's body and left of its own accord at some future period (or even possesses her as some plot point in the episode). We'll have to wait and see what the episode gives us.
So, I agree with the OP. The scene could've been better handled, without resorting to a self-referential comedy skit. The idea, already present from the first episode, that these Ensigns just shrug and eye roll when dealt with the cosmic horror of the universe, is great and the bread and butter of McMahan's vision for the show. But they might want to be a little more nuanced in how that is presented at times.
It's the "I could wish for world peace but I really want those $1200 pumps" joke, carefully stripped of the specifics that would tag it explicitly as sexist.
The two moments that have come closest to transgressing trekkie sensibilities for a laugh were probably the Boimler-sucking monster bug and Mariner watching naked guys in the holodeck.
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I find it fun
I think you're over thinking this.
And I don't see how it's a self-parody.
Yup
Same here. I feel like that level of analysis is going to end up killing enjoyment for many.
Yes like the YouTube reviews that are triple the length of an actual episode.
Probably like a tapeworm, rebuilding its mass through what Freeman ingests. Could be part of a plot further down the road.
Not for me. If I can't analyze a short scene in five paragraphs or more, then I haven't had my coffee yet.
And life period at the moment. I expected to hate it..........and it held my attention. I HEAR it gets better. Like I have said before if it holds my attention and makes me giggle a little until Discovery starts up, then it's a win for me.
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