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Death Penalty? Why?

So going to Talos IV was punishable by execution? After seeing The Menagerie zillions of times I have often wondered...why? I could see them telling ship captains not to go there. But to kill them? Why all the fuss? I would think that letting your self be used as a pawn, destroying star fleet ships, and causing the death of thousands of StarFleet personel would be borderline death penalty.

But going to some back water world?

Hmmmmmm...
 
The truth? Because it served a dramatic purpose in the episode(s). :p

AND I guess in the 60s people just had another mentality towards death penalty. But then again, what do I know?

To tell the truth, I never understood it either. (But I can't understand the death penalty today, so ...)
 
When Pike suggests trade or mutual cooperation with the Talosians, one Talosian says that humans would learn the power of illusion and suffer the same addiction to it the Talosians had. I suppose Starfleet considered this a serious enough potential threat to humanity that they decided to keep the Talosians' power secret by any means necessary. It's hard to think of a better way to discourage people from visiting a planet than threatening to execute them if they do.

I would think it would make people pretty curious about what going on on Talos IV, however.

As far as the 60's attitudes toward the death penalty, that may have something to do with the real world reason for it, but I tend to discount that given that Mendez says visiting Talos IV is the only death penalty still on the books - which suggests the death penalty is largely seen as outmoded in the 23rd century.
 
The Thelosian gave the answer: "Your people would learn our powers and destroy yourselves too." (paraphrased)

That kind of power would act as a virus eating away at the fabric of our society as it did theirs. It seems to me, the death penalty is meant to be, along with being a deterrent to going in the first place, the vaccination against it getting loose among humanity.
 
Also, I think the idea that of all the rules of law in the Federation, this is the only one with the death penalty gave a bit of a dramatic depth to breaking that law for the script writers to show how bad Spock needed to get there.
 
I don't think Starfleet would give a rat's ass about the putative threat of mankind's stagnation. They'd justly be worried about the much more concrete threat of the Talosians taking over the universe if somebody went there with a starship and thus allowed them to escape to the cosmos. That would clearly warrant a major deterrent.

Starfleet couldn't very well tell everybody just why the deterrent was set up, tho - some people would probably still go in and risk it all for the off chance that they'd be the ones to gain control of the Talosian universe-domination skills. But they couldn't go for complete silence, either, because the Talosians were actively luring victims to their planet. If Starfleet were going to destroy all vessels ever attempting contact with Talos (the only way to protect the universe, really), then it would simply make pragmatic sense to establish a death penalty for individual persons, too.

Kirk's visit to Talos would have established that the locals were not such a major threat after all, though. If they had twice had the opportunity to take over Starfleet, and had failed to do so on both occasions, the quarantine and the deterrent could probably be discontinued.

Timo Saloniemi
 
In "The Menagerie", Mendez makes a comment about General Order 7 being the last death penalty on the books. But in later episodes we hear that's not exactly true ("The Ultimate Computer" affirms that the penalty for murder is death).
 
...Although the assertion in "The Ultimate Computer" may be symbolic-moralistic only, since it is doubtful any sort of legal action could be brought against a machine. Kirk isn't exactly arguing with M-5's rational side in that dialogue, he's trying to drive to suicide that side of M-5 that was copied from Richard Daystrom's personality.

At least three other instances of TOS show that murderers are not put to death, but instead subjected to psychological treatment. Taking "The Ultimate Computer" literally would thus present continuity problems.

Yet we also have to differentiate between various "books" here: there may be differing sets of penalties in Starfleet and Federation civilian law. Perhaps murder, treason, and being an ugly female are punishable by death in UFP civilian law, and violation of GO 7 is the only thing that Starfleet code ADDS to that total?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Theoretically, those little guys could be the death of all the galaxy if they wished. No conventional weaponry could stop them: even if you brought out your biggest guns, you would only end up shooting yourself with those.

The trial against Kirk and Spock would seem far too limited in scope, really. The whole crew should have been executed on spot for allowing the contact to happen! But how to do that? If the executioner got close enough to our heroes to perform his job, he, too, would be susceptible to Talosian control...

I'd think that, once the contact did happen, the trial from Starfleet's point of view was more or less unnecessary. The deterrent had failed, the damage had been done - it no longer mattered whether Kirk lived or died. But neither Kirk nor (the real) Mendez would know that. None of these people had any idea why the death penalty existed, so they'd go forth with the formalities of the trial anyway.

Spock, of course, would know. And he would also realize that revealing the full evidence would make everybody understand that the death penalty was unnecessary. He did take an awful risk in allowing the Talosians a second try at enslaving mankind - or Vulcankind, considering that he personally probably initiated contact with Talos in order to pull this off. But it turned out all right in the end.

Or did it? It does sound like the Talosians finally got the breeding pair they wanted. The rest of mankind might be safe now, but there would still exist a slave caste of human beings on Talos. Unless the combined effect of and Pike's injuries was enough to prevent procreation, that is.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Isn't the holodeck a technological analog to the Talosian powers of illusion?

The holodeck does not snare the unwary into believing that things are real that aren't.

Humans let loose among the general federation population with the Talosians' power of illusion could wreak havoc that a holodeck simply couldn't.
 
So going to Talos IV was punishable by execution? After seeing The Menagerie zillions of times I have often wondered...why?

Maybe it wasn't.

Maybe the Buttheads only made everyone think going there was punishable by execution.

Joe, watches too much LOST
 
Or maybe the Talosians cut a secret deal with Starfleet Command that established a death penalty for visiting Talos. Mendez didn't radio Kirk so quickly (unless that was an illusion) to waive the prohibition unless the Talosians could cut a deal, right?
 
So going to Talos IV was punishable by execution? After seeing The Menagerie zillions of times I have often wondered...why?

Maybe it wasn't.

Maybe the Buttheads only made everyone think going there was punishable by execution.

Joe, watches too much LOST

Hmmmm..wouldn't it be real neat if Pike woke up inside his cell and everything from there on was just a dream? wallah, Star Trek; Dallas?
 
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