And I really enjoyed Majel's speech about her husbands reputation. That delivery felt truly emotional like she felt that assessment for Gene as much as Emperor Turhan.
Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
What I noticed this time around, is that G'Kar doesn't know that he was talking to Kosh when he thought that he experienced a vision of his Father telling him "Some must die for all to live".
Either Kosh just plain tricked G'Kar, or he telepathically pushed the Narn, but G'Kar's revelation to sacrifice to the point of autogenocide is just a vision board from the Vorlons who need millions of unquestioning pawns for the next phase in the war, and got them at a bargain basement deal.
Kosh is a prick.
Either Kosh just plain tricked G'Kar, or he telepathically pushed the Narn, but G'Kar's revelation to sacrifice to the point of autogenocide is just a vision board from the Vorlons who need millions of unquestioning pawns for the next phase in the war, and got them at a bargain basement deal.
Kosh is a prick.
They're a dying people, Sinclair.
Kosh had his prick moments, for sure. But I think he genuinely cared, or at least thought more about the younger races, than the rest of the Vorlons. Ulkesh feels like a representation of the majority of Vorlons. It made sense to me that Kosh was the underdog of his race. Which rather fits with how most of the other ambassadors are truly viewed by their own governments when B5 starts.
Londo got the job because it was considered a joke, like him. Sinclair was WAY down the list of potential commanders, and only got it because the Minbari wanted him there since they got to choose the station commander because they were the primary funders. Delenn, while not really a joke in the Grey Council, was the lowest rank among them, since she was going through the rites to be a full on member at the time. G'Kar, not entirely sure about, though he does end up being the last of the Kha'Ri after Narn is occupied. This implies, based on how everyone else started and ended, that he was of a station similar to Delenn.
When Kosh went in G'Kar's mind, I think it was more about trying to help him understand there's bigger problems coming, and to not let his people be trapped in a cycle with the Centauri like his were with the Shadows. This likely explains why when Kosh was asked if the Narn or Centauri are a dead race, he just said 'Yes', obviously meaning both were dead. I think he was projecting his own feelings about Vorlons and Shadows.
I also think Kosh was guiding Sheridan along a path he ultimately chose. Remember that piece of Kosh in Sheridan told him to jump at Z'Ha'Dum? He clearly knew about Lorien, but I think he also knew Sheridan was ready to be what he became, and take the information from Lorien and end the cycle. Ultimately, I feel Kosh was tired of the endless Vorlon/Shadow cycle. He may have been not nice in several sutuations, but you sometimes have to be the bad guy in order to get good to happen.
Londo got the job because it was considered a joke, like him. Sinclair was WAY down the list of potential commanders, and only got it because the Minbari wanted him there since they got to choose the station commander because they were the primary funders. Delenn, while not really a joke in the Grey Council, was the lowest rank among them, since she was going through the rites to be a full on member at the time. G'Kar, not entirely sure about, though he does end up being the last of the Kha'Ri after Narn is occupied. This implies, based on how everyone else started and ended, that he was of a station similar to Delenn.
When Kosh went in G'Kar's mind, I think it was more about trying to help him understand there's bigger problems coming, and to not let his people be trapped in a cycle with the Centauri like his were with the Shadows. This likely explains why when Kosh was asked if the Narn or Centauri are a dead race, he just said 'Yes', obviously meaning both were dead. I think he was projecting his own feelings about Vorlons and Shadows.
I also think Kosh was guiding Sheridan along a path he ultimately chose. Remember that piece of Kosh in Sheridan told him to jump at Z'Ha'Dum? He clearly knew about Lorien, but I think he also knew Sheridan was ready to be what he became, and take the information from Lorien and end the cycle. Ultimately, I feel Kosh was tired of the endless Vorlon/Shadow cycle. He may have been not nice in several sutuations, but you sometimes have to be the bad guy in order to get good to happen.
The Narn are a dead race because without the telepathic gene, they can't transubstantiate.
I guess the Xon carried something that would have carried the Centauri to that level since they were included with the Narn. It doesn't much matter if they die off in ten years or a thousand to an immortal. That's after breakfast or dinner to them.
Interesting thought. I always took it as them eventually killing each other off.
...wait for it...
No; he's a Vorlon, but that's an easy mistake to make.
I don't think any of this has anything to do with genetics for either the Narn or Centauri. Keep in mind this is coming from the perspective of a very, very, VERY old race that has seen many many other species come and go, their petty Empires rise and fall and so any Vorlon will have a sense for the types that tend to make it and the types that tend not to. They've seen it all, they know all the patterns and those two races just have "doomed to self destruction" written all over them. Given that this is coming from Kosh should give it extra weight since among Vorlons he's one of the odd ones that actually takes what by Vorlon standards passes for a keen interest in the younger races.
He's not omnipotent of course and he may very well be wrong in either or both cases, but one can at least understand why he'd feel confident in that assessment.
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What do the Xon have to do with all this?
If they intermarry from time to time, that means that most Centauri are hybrids who benefit from a top up of Xon DNA every 5 or 6 generations or so.
^ I highly doubt the Xon and Centauri ever interbred.
Based on what little we know about them (via Londo), the Xon and Centauri hated each other from the get-go.
In any case, why are we even talking about the Xon in the first place? They were a throwaway line, nothing more. They were all wiped out thousands of years ago, so how relevant could they possibly be?
Based on what little we know about them (via Londo), the Xon and Centauri hated each other from the get-go.
In any case, why are we even talking about the Xon in the first place? They were a throwaway line, nothing more. They were all wiped out thousands of years ago, so how relevant could they possibly be?
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IIRC the Centauri and the Xon evolved on separate isolated continents and had next to no contact until both were industrialised civilisations. While they were probably related species, the point of common ancestry probably predated either civilisation's history, maybe even before even the hunter-gatherer stage.
Imagine if when Europeans travelled to the Americas, instead of finding the lands populated with many small tribes of humans with technology still very much in the stone age, they ran into an equally advanced ocean going, musket wielding civilisation of Homo erectus with just as much enthusiasm for flag planting and colonialism.
There'd be no commonalities of language, culture, custom, religion or more crucially; psychology. For both of them it was effectively like making first contact with an alien race and they were mutually hostile right from the off. So no, it wasn't comparable to the Hyach-do situation in terms of shared genetics.
Imagine if when Europeans travelled to the Americas, instead of finding the lands populated with many small tribes of humans with technology still very much in the stone age, they ran into an equally advanced ocean going, musket wielding civilisation of Homo erectus with just as much enthusiasm for flag planting and colonialism.
There'd be no commonalities of language, culture, custom, religion or more crucially; psychology. For both of them it was effectively like making first contact with an alien race and they were mutually hostile right from the off. So no, it wasn't comparable to the Hyach-do situation in terms of shared genetics.
A bit over 350 years. Malcolm Hulke's unused early Who script 408AD was probably about the Roman Empire telling Britain is that it would have to protect itself (given the date). If Arthur existed, he was probably a Romano-British leader fighting off the English invaders (bottom line, he probably existed but the later myths are just myths. Not king, Camelot was just a refuge, not some paradise, etc)
^ I highly doubt the Xon and Centauri ever interbred.
Based on what little we know about them (via Londo), the Xon and Centauri hated each other from the get-go.
In any case, why are we even talking about the Xon in the first place? They were a throwaway line, nothing more. They were all wiped out thousands of years ago, so how relevant could they possibly be?
To be fair to Gov Kodos' idea, BABYLON 5 was a series that had almost nothing as a throwaway line. Everything was paid off at some point down the line. Any other show, I'd definitely agree it was just a simple piece of dialogue.
Well the relevance of the Xon is what it tells us about the Centauri and how they view themselves and other races. Their first experience in meeting another culture resulted in mass genocide. Whether the Xon gave them much of a choice in the matter is a story as yet untold, but the end result is still a culture forged by a fight for dominance.
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The show repeatedly went around about race and genetics and the evils associated with genetic purity and culling the impure as well as the evils of racism in general. That's what wiped out the Ekarans and other races in the series. I assume the Centauri and Narn will fail to get to first one status for the same reasons, needed parts of the gene pool to create first ones were wiped out. The show comes back to the evils of seeking racial purity over and over. It is a dead end every time in B5.
The seeking of "genetic purity" or rather how the very concept is nonsensical isn't really the point of those stories. It's more about being selfless instead of selfless. Open and embracing of a plurality rather than being insular and dogmatic. The former is the result of the latter, not the other way around. Cart before the horse and all that.
So yeah, the idea that the Centauri didn't interbreed with the Xon being the reason why they'll never get to the level of the First Ones (which is what I was responding to) doesn't really track.
It does for me. Such is interpretation. I don't want to do more here since it would get spoilerish and it is just my interpretation. I'm not married to it.
Oh. That must be why I don't remember them. I was starting to get confused following this discussion. I couldn't figure out what Spock's replacement from the never made PHASE II series had to do with BABYLON 5.^ I highly doubt the Xon and Centauri ever interbred.
Based on what little we know about them (via Londo), the Xon and Centauri hated each other from the get-go.
In any case, why are we even talking about the Xon in the first place? They were a throwaway line, nothing more. They were all wiped out thousands of years ago, so how relevant could they possibly be?
So Severed Dreams was really kick-ass!
Ceremonies Of Light And Dark felt like Valentine’s Day with all the confessions of love. Really like the new uniforms too.
Ceremonies Of Light And Dark felt like Valentine’s Day with all the confessions of love. Really like the new uniforms too.
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