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Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1

@captaincrow For myself and many others, the mantle of Batwoman is not a legacy to be passed on, meaning that if Kate Kane - whether played by Ruby Rose or another actress - is no longer part of the series, there is no series.

You can dismiss that position as inflexible, but it's how myself and many others feel, and we're completely entitled to feel that way.
 
"Many others" = 4 guys at a comic book store.

Nope.

Look up the Twitter hashtag #katekaneisbatwoman

I'm going to make the prediction that the same-day ratings for Batwoman's return next January take a dramatic tumble from what they were for the series' Freshman finale this past April, and I have significant doubts that they'll recover enough to justify renewing it for a third season..

If I'm wrong, I'll admit to having been wrong, but we'll see.
 
I'm gonna keep watching Batwoman for now (well, when it's back on) and give this Ryan Wilder character a chance. But I totally get where @DigificWriter and others are coming from. Because, even if you don't know Batwoman from the comics (and Kate is the dominant Batwoman in the comics, even if Kathy Kane has been recently re-established as canon and a seperate character), The CW has told us for two years to invest into the character of Kate Kane, with two big crossovers and a whole season of her own show (not to mention all the marketing).

So, now this new Ryan Wilder character will be Batwoman. We know nothing about this character thus far. It is a completely original character that has not appeared in comics before, any attachment will have to be earned.

If she's just like Kate Kane, then what's the point in her not being Kate Kane. And if she's not just like Kate Kane, then, accept it, she's a different character, and fans of Kate Kane are understandably pissed. They've been promised a TV show about Kate Kane in a shared TV universe that rarely leaves any major character behind, certainly not the title character (and yes, Kate was the title character, she was Batwoman), and now they are told that no, she's gone, here's a totally new character you know nothing about who will take over the show.

And you want to go and tell these fans to shut up and like it? Shame them as inflexible and irrational? Really?
 
Will Kate be killed off? Will she vanish like Bruce? I Suppose it would be easy enough to have a stunt woman in the costume who gets blown to hell in the first 5 minutes.
 
So, now this new Ryan Wilder character will be Batwoman. We know nothing about this character thus far. It is a completely original character that has not appeared in comics before, any attachment will have to be earned.

This makes no difference. The fact is, comic books' readership is a tiny fraction of TV shows' viewership, a matter of thousands or tens of thousands for the former and millions or tens of millions for the latter. So the vast majority of Batwoman's TV audience had no prior familiarity with Kate Kane either, except from Elseworlds. If she'd appeared in movies before, then you might have a point, but mass-media versions of superheroes have always dwarfed the audience size of the original comics. (Which is why comics so routinely follow the lead of mass-media adaptations by adopting their characters, concepts, and approach, ever since Superman adopted Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, and kryptonite from the radio show.)


They've been promised a TV show about Kate Kane in a shared TV universe that rarely leaves any major character behind, certainly not the title character (and yes, Kate was the title character, she was Batwoman), and now they are told that no, she's gone, here's a totally new character you know nothing about who will take over the show.

And you want to go and tell these fans to shut up and like it? Shame them as inflexible and irrational? Really?

It's not about shaming (at least I hope not), just about encouraging them to keep an open mind. "Try it, you might like it" is not an attack. And I say that as someone who's been reluctant to try new things since childhood. So yes, I understand the resistance, because it's part of my own nature. But because of that lifelong experience, I also understand that such resistance to novelty is a weakness rather than a strength, because it's kept me from trying things that I ultimately found I enjoyed.

There's no harm in trying something you're wary of. At worst, your doubts will be proven right and you can drop it and move on. At best, your doubts will prove unwarranted and you'll find something new to enjoy. But if you don't try it at all, you'll never know. (I was very wary of Harley Quinn because I didn't like what I heard about the ultraviolence, but when I tried it after all, I found it's a fantastic show. I still don't like the violent parts, but the rest is terrific, and I can just avert my eyes when I need to.)


Will Kate be killed off? Will she vanish like Bruce? I Suppose it would be easy enough to have a stunt woman in the costume who gets blown to hell in the first 5 minutes.

The showrunner tweeted some time ago that the mystery of Kate's disappearance will be one of the major story arcs of season 2.
 
This makes no difference. The fact is, comic books' readership is a tiny fraction of TV shows' viewership, a matter of thousands or tens of thousands for the former and millions or tens of millions for the latter. So the vast majority of Batwoman's TV audience had no prior familiarity with Kate Kane either, except from Elseworlds. If she'd appeared in movies before, then you might have a point, but mass-media versions of superheroes have always dwarfed the audience size of the original comics. (Which is why comics so routinely follow the lead of mass-media adaptations by adopting their characters, concepts, and approach, ever since Superman adopted Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, and kryptonite from the radio show.)

And I see you didn't get the point at all. In the part of my post you didn't quote, I talked about both those who knew Kate Kane from the comics, and those who didn't. The latter had two crossovers and a season of her own show to grow attached to Kate Kane. This new character will have to start over.

It's not about shaming (at least I hope not), just about encouraging them to keep an open mind. "Try it, you might like it" is not an attack. And I say that as someone who's been reluctant to try new things since childhood. So yes, I understand the resistance, because it's part of my own nature. But because of that lifelong experience, I also understand that such resistance to novelty is a weakness rather than a strength, because it's kept me from trying things that I ultimately found I enjoyed.

There's no harm in trying something you're wary of. At worst, your doubts will be proven right and you can drop it and move on. At best, your doubts will prove unwarranted and you'll find something new to enjoy. But if you don't try it at all, you'll never know. (I was very wary of Harley Quinn because I didn't like what I heard about the ultraviolence, but when I tried it after all, I found it's a fantastic show. I still don't like the violent parts, but the rest is terrific, and I can just avert my eyes when I need to.)

Yes, we apparently are in the same boat on that (in regards to Batwoman, anyway, because I love ultraviolence). But others in this thread, in recent posts, have very much taken an insulting tone towards those who plan on dropping the show now that Kate's gone.

And I didn't even mention how the current media landscape has an abundance of quality genre shows, including superhero shows. You can totally afford to be picky about what you watch. I'll watch the next couple of episodes, but if I find after five or six episodes that I'm not into it, I'll drop it without a second thought, and be glad that I have another hour per week for something else.
 
The latter had two crossovers and a season of her own show to grow attached to Kate Kane. This new character will have to start over.

The point is, two years ago, Kate was the one who was just starting out, the newcomer to an established franchise, and we still accepted her. So there's no reason to think we couldn't accept a new character in the same situation.
 
The showrunner tweeted some time ago that the mystery of Kate's disappearance will be one of the major story arcs of season 2.

I hope they can bring Ruby back for a one shot when they wrap it up, say in a flashback, to at least have some closure. Without her, it's just a dead end mystery or, at the very least, unsatisfying if they find a "stunt body." Like when Gypsy was killed on The Flash. That was really empty.

As for accepting a new lead, I accepted John Sheridan and Michael Ironside. As long as it's done well and the character is engaging, it'll work out.
 
I hope they can bring Ruby back for a one shot when they wrap it up, say in a flashback, to at least have some closure.

That's my hope -- that bringing in a new character rather than recasting or killing off Kate is a way to leave the door open for Rose to return occasionally.
 
The point is, two years ago, Kate was the one who was just starting out, the newcomer to an established franchise, and we still accepted her. So there's no reason to think we couldn't accept a new character in the same situation.
People have already grown attached to Kate Kane. We are not two years ago, we are now, we've had these two crossovers and a solo season. The new character has had none of that, there is no attachment yet. So, in this situation, the unwillingness of some fans who were attached to the character of Kate Kane (and mind you, they might very well have been in that group who already knew her from the comics) to further follow the show is not unreasonable in the least.

Kate Kane was an addition to the franchise, while Ryan Wilder will be a replacement of another character. The former titular character. The decision to create a new character to replace Kate Kane, instead of simply recasting, is basically taking the character of Kate Kane out of the show. Of course, this is a totally different situation. The grief of the fans of Kate Kane will to one extent or another result in resentment over the new character. That's to be expected, it's how human psychology works. So, yes, Ryan Wilder not only will have to start over, she'll also have a harder time with a certain group in the audience.
 
People have already grown attached to Kate Kane. We are not two years ago, we are now, we've had these two crossovers and a solo season. The new character has had none of that, there is no attachment yet. So, in this situation, the unwillingness of some fans who were attached to the character of Kate Kane (and mind you, they might very well have been in that group who already knew her from the comics) to further follow the show is not unreasonable in the least.

If they try the new lead and don't like her, then sure, that's fine. But like I said, you lose nothing by at least giving something new a try before deciding that. It's weird that this is anything to argue over. Of course people can make their own choices, but you can make a better choice after trying something than months beforehand.


The decision to create a new character to replace Kate Kane, instead of simply recasting, is basically taking the character of Kate Kane out of the show.

Yes, that is extremely obvious. That is, self-evidently, what they are doing. And it could fail, or it could work. We won't know which until it happens.
 
I haven't seen all the posts..

But surprised they didn't just have Sophie replace Kate. I mean... EASY transition... she has the same combat training as Kate, can have an easy built in tension with Commander Kane, already knows the crew and Gotham. Has a reason to keep Kate's legacy going.

Seems strange they didn't go for that ...
 
I haven't seen all the posts..

But surprised they didn't just have Sophie replace Kate. I mean... EASY transition... she has the same combat training as Kate, can have an easy built in tension with Commander Kane, already knows the crew and Gotham. Has a reason to keep Kate's legacy going.

Seems strange they didn't go for that ...
Is she LGBTQ? They seem to want someone who is playing the lead.
 
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