Final Ruling: The Best Post-T2 Terminator Film

[Gaith]

Alright, folks, now that the dust has settled on Dark Fate, it's time to vote: what is the greatest post-T2 Terminator film? No, TSCC, Ex Machina, and other non-film/official picks aren't eligible. It's a four-way battle.

My pick is the original post-T2 film, Rise of the Machines, for the following reasons:

- It's nice and violent. Salvation (even in its unrated cut, probably) and Genisys pretty well disqualify themselves on their PG-13 ratings alone.
- It's not overlong. At 109 minutes, T3 is 21 minutes shorter than Dark Fate, and I doubt the later film has much more dialogue, if indeed it has more at all. T3 actually just about ties T1's running time of 107 minutes, especially when one factors in lengthening end credits.
- T3 has the most post-T2 Arnold. And, if one must continue the series after Judgment Day, surely the more Arnold, the better.
- Nick Stahl and Claire Danes both give strong, credible performances that show real fear. Only Dark Fate rivals it on the post-T2 acting front, with strong turns from Linda Hamilton and Mackenzie Davis, but Natalia Reyes, while not bad, drags that movie's average below the high bar set by Stahl and Danes.
- T3's action, while not wildly original, is very respectable, and, unlike Dark Fate, doesn't go to cartoonish and butt-numbing extremes (that night chase to the military base to the zero-g plane battle to parachuting underwater to the extended dam fight...).
- T3 actually adds a new dramatic take on its heroes by showing a burnt-out John having little to live for without Judgment Day, but unable to settle down and find peace for fear it might still happen. Dark Fate Sarah, on the other hand, is mostly the same gruff cynic from the start of T2, and Dani and Grace are mostly repeats of T1 Sarah and Kyle, but without the romance.
- By showing the original, non-Cyberdyne origin of Skynet, T3 arguably justifies its own existence more than any of the later sequels. This is admittedly part head canon, but as I understand it, blowing up Cyberdyne in T2 only reverted the accelerated Skynet development made possible by the original T-800 chip left behind in '84.

I do like bits of Dark Fate - Diego Luna is great, the "Carl" Terminator is an interesting character (even if the lack of post-mission success guidelines severely strains credulity), and the Mexico change of setting is neat. Overall, however, it's just too long, overly loud, and with too little development for Dani to beat T3. Rise of the Machines therefore wins.

 

[USS Firefly]

By showing the original, non-Cyberdyne origin of Skynet, T3 arguably justifies its own existence more than any of the later sequels. This is admittedly part head canon, but as I understand it, blowing up Cyberdyne in T2 only reverted the accelerated Skynet development made possible by the original T-800 chip left behind in '84.

There was an arm left from the Arnold Terminator in T2.
At the end fight between the T800 and T1000, the T800 arm got stuck and he lost It when he pulled itself free. That part stays there.

I also vote for T3, especially everything with Stahl and Danes, their acting was so good and I was shocked with the ending.

T4 also get's a point because we finally got to see a little bit of the culture, I really wish we got a sequel of that movie instead of what we've got.

 

[Mage]

Haven't seen Genisys and Dark Fate, so I can't comment on those.

T3 had a lot of good stuff going for it, especially with that ending. Salvation is very underrated, and with some more work could have been an amazing movie.

 

[Tosk]

There is no such thing as "greatest post T2 sequel" ...there is only least bad.

There was an arm left from the Arnold Terminator in T2.

The arm did not aid in the creation of Skynet. It's an arm. The chip was the key to creating Skynet. As Dyson himself said, "Do you know about the chip? [... ] It was smashed. It didn't work, but it gave us ideas, took us in new directions. Things we would've never th... All my work was based on it."

My vote goes to T3. Despite it having massive problems, it probably has fewer than all that came after it. (Although I admit to not hating TDF, I'm just blasé about it.) T4 has a completely nonsensical script, and the less said about TG the better. TG is the worst just by virtue of casting Jai Courtney as Kyle.

 

[Gaith]

The arm did not aid in the creation of Skynet. It's an arm. The chip was the key to creating Skynet. As Dyson himself said, "Do you know about the chip? [... ] It was smashed. It didn't work, but it gave us ideas, took us in new directions. Things we would've never th... All my work was based on it."

Agreed. I'm sure it's an impressive arm, but it doesn't hold the key to coding for AI.

 

[USS Firefly]

The arm did not aid in the creation of Skynet. It's an arm. The chip was the key to creating Skynet. As Dyson himself said, "Do you know about the chip? [... ] It was smashed. It didn't work, but it gave us ideas, took us in new directions. Things we would've never th... All my work was based on it."

Oh yeah I forget about that, I haven't seen the movies in a long time

 

[Captaindemotion]

I almost voted for DF and then remembered that I haven’t seen ROTM since the cinema. So I’m probably putting ROTM at an unfair disadvantage, given that DF, which pleasantly exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations, is fairly fresh in my mind.

ROTM had to follow the brilliance of T2, it was the first not to have Cameron behind the camera and it didn’t have Hamilton (as well as replacing Furlong). It didn’t add anything new to the series, apart from a genuinely brave ending, but it was a fairly effective re-do. Shame Mostow doesn’t make more movies.

I’m in the minority that quite likes T:S, for all its silliness; it did try to do something other than the time-travel story, we finally got to see the future and Anton Yelchin was excellent as Reece, giving an underrated Biehn impression. I would have quite liked to see direct sequels.

T:G started off quite well but couldn’t overcome the horrible miscasting of Emilia Clarke and, especially, the always-awful Jai Courtney and it ended up just a tired series of homages. Arnie was fun in it, though.

so, yeah, really down to ROTM and DF, but I think that the points @Gaith makes are convincing and so the former wins.

 

[Tosk]

I’m in the minority that quite likes T:S, for all its silliness; it did try to do something other than the time-travel story, we finally got to see the future and Anton Yelchin was excellent as Reece, giving an underrated Biehn impression.

Those are definitely three points in its favor. For my money though, it squandered every positive it had with an atrocious script (by two writers who fully admit to hating the character of John Connor) shot by a very mediocre director.

McG almost pleaded with Bale to sign on, saying "Give me a chance. Everyone needs to evolve, and I need to turn over a new leaf. [...] I promise you, I’m ready for it..."

(Ron Howard Narrates) "He wasn't."

Edit: Sorry, that reads like I'm trying to specifically shit all over something you like. I promise it's not my intention to single out your taste or anything, I just have a lot of strong feelings over how the Terminator franchise has been increasingly mangled and mishandled.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Those are definitely three points in its favor. For my money though, it squandered every positive it had with an atrocious script (by two writers who fully admit to hating the character of John Connor) shot by a very mediocre director.

McG almost pleaded with Bale to sign on, saying "Give me a chance. Everyone needs to evolve, and I need to turn over a new leaf. [...] I promise you, I’m ready for it..."

(Ron Howard Narrates) "He wasn't."

Edit: Sorry, that reads like I'm trying to specifically shit all over something you like. I promise it's not my intention to single out your taste or anything, I just have a lot of strong feelings over how the Terminator franchise has been increasingly mangled and mishandled.

Lol, no problem, I know I’m in the very tiny minority on this. I haven’t seen it since the cinema (whereas I’ve watched the first 2 numerous times) and maybe if I watched it again I’d hate it. But I saw it with 2 friends and we would rarely, if ever, agree on the films we’d see together. We all thought it was a decent, entertaining enough big, dumb action movie.

 

[Tosk]

And I wouldn't try to change your opinion. (Or be shy with mine. )

It definitely has good points. Like the other lesser Terminators, I'm almost more annoyed by the wasted potential than anything else. Almost.

 

[Saul]

Terminator 3.

Is it perfect? No, but when you follow the first two movies this doesn't do such a bad job. It was fun, it was reminiscent of T2. I like that the Terminator and John still had a history and they could play off that. I like the action, the ending was an excellent twist that opened up possibilities that were squandered away by future sequels.
Schwarzenegger was still on the top of his game, he wasn't CG, old or wearing a baggy jacket.

 

[RandyS]

There is no such thing as "greatest post T2 sequel" ...there is only least bad.

My vote goes to T3.

Agreed, and yes, T3 is the only "good" sequel to T2. Even though it seemed to me like more of a remake with a reversed ending.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Rise of the Machines
Dark Fate
Salvation
Genisys

 

[Mr. Adventure]

There's a fan edit of T3 out there called The Coming Storm which I really liked if you can find it and I think it makes the movie even better.

I saw Salvation and Genisys at some point but can't even really remember anything about them. I liked Diego Luna in Agents of Shield but he didn't do much for me in Dark Fate and the FX wasn't convincing enough to engage. I hope if they ever come back to it that they go back to a more fixed and substantial form of Terminator.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Most of the sequels kinda left me cold, to be honest. I was always a fan of the original film being an absolutely closed loop. Once they messed with that, IMHO the whole thing fell apart.

That said, I admit I do kind of like T2 - with the Future Coda ending. I mean, if they're hell bent on futzing with the loop, might as well use it for good, eh?

 

[Gaith]

There's a fan edit of T3 out there called The Coming Storm which I really liked if you can find it and I think it makes the movie even better.

I've seen it too, but didn't much care for it. It basically cuts out all the jokes and goofy moments, which to me robs the ending of its surprise impact, because without the prior levity, it's a grim movie with child murders and the heroes' loved ones dying left and right.

That said, I admit I do kind of like T2 - with the Future Coda ending. I mean, if they're hell bent on futzing with the loop, might as well use it for good, eh?

There's nothing good about that fiasco of a deleted ending.

 

[JD]

I've seen T3, Salvation, and Dark Fate, but I don't really remember T3 at all. I'm one of the few people who actually like Salvation, it was pretty much just OK, but I give it points for giving us a whole movie set in the future. I just wish they had kept the look of it more consistent with the opening of T2.
I really enjoyed Dark Fate, I thought it put some really interesting new little twists into the mythology, and I thought most of it's action scenes were pretty cool.
I don't really feel comfortable voting, since I don't remember T3. I'm definitely starting to think I might need to rewatch T3.

 

[Gaith]

I'm one of the few people who actually like Salvation, it was pretty much just OK, but I give it points for giving us a whole movie set in the future. I just wish they had kept the look of it more consistent with the opening of T2.

Well, but that's a key problem with really showing the Future War, isn't it? (Apart from where does the Resistance get their food and water, that is). Nighttime battle scenes are far more atmospheric and cinematic, but don't make much sense, because infrared vision would give the machines a huge tactical advantage after dark. Defensive action is one thing, but humans should only attack in daylight. So, as much as fans might think they want a whole Future War movie, it's really a lose-lose situation.

And for those who missed the discussion last October in another tread, Salvation was originally meant to be far more bonkers and weird than it ended up being.

 

[saddestmoon]

Count me in among those who liked Salvation!

It is underrated IMO. Certainly, it has its fair share of problems, but it’s infinitely more rewatchable than Genysis, T3, and DF.

 

[Timby]

I agree with Tosk on the "least bad" point. I utterly detested Genisys and Dark Fate, and Salvation was one of the most miserable experiences I've ever had in a theater. Rise of the Machines is essentially a remake of Terminator 2 with the serial numbers filed off and a clever twist at the end. That being said, it's still the least bad.