My view is I'm not sure it was really even arrogance when Picard truly is important and his mission was real. He's ambassador to an alien that can blink humans out of existence... they should line up a ship if he asks. They're supposed to look past TV appearances be better than that and keep an open mind and get to the heart of the matter.
Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek
- Thread starter AnotherGalaxys
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My view is I'm not sure it was really even arrogance when Picard truly is important and his mission was real. He's ambassador to an alien that can blink humans out of existence... they should line up a ship if he asks. They're supposed to look past TV appearances be better than that and keep an open mind and get to the heart of the matter.
Agree to disagree at this point. I cannot see it as anything but arrogant.
That's kind of a generous definition of the relationship between Picard and Q. I doubt either of them considers Picard to be an "ambassador." Picard himself feels Q is a pest who is always getting in his way, while Q views Picard as a favored pet.
Regardless, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Picard is an "ambassador" to Q, an alien who can blink humans out of existence, so therefore Starfleet should be at Picard's disposal to carry out his whims? Exactly, what does that mean, that when Admiral Clancy stated shouting about sheer fucking hubris Picard should have said "get me a ship, or I'll have Q erase you from existence"? First of all, I doubt Picard would be one to make such a threat and even if he could arrange that, it's equally doubtful he would. But even if he were for some reason to make the request of Q, there's even less of a chance Q would be inclined to do so.
Hell, if Picard were to start making requests of Q and Q were inclined to grant them, he wouldn't need to go to Starfleet for assistance. He could just ask Q to get Soji out of harm's way. Or undo the attack on Mars. Or even help out with the Romulan evacuation efforts. Or prevent the supernova in the first place.
I would 100% watch a series about Picard and seven solving weird mysteries
My bad, chief contact is how Rios describes it, not ambassador.
It simply means the man is important whether they like him or not, even after sitting out for years and insulting them on TV he's still someone they should be listening to since he's representing humanity. If they had good leadership they would have seen that and assisted the mission or sidestepped the mess like he says near the end of the series
It simply means the man is important whether they like him or not, even after sitting out for years and insulting them on TV he's still someone they should be listening to since he's representing humanity. If they had good leadership they would have seen that and assisted the mission or sidestepped the mess like he says near the end of the series
The man is important but they are under no obligation to listen to them. I don't see how he is not arrogant to insult them and expect them to listen.
I truly don't understand this point of view.
I truly don't understand this point of view.
It's also important to note that at the time, Picard had no evidence to back up his claims. So imagine the matter from Admiral Clancy's perspective, a man who left Starfleet a decade in a half earlier in protest of his orders comes back mere days after talking shit about them on the news with a story about being attacked by a Romulan special ops team in San Francisco, when the official report says he was found alone and asleep by the police. He's telling a story about android offspring and is requesting a ship and crew to search for a man who has been missing for several years. Add into the equation his brain abnormality, and it becomes very understandable why Clancy didn't approve the mission.
Or, look at this analogy. Imagine in the modern day a retired US Navy Admiral who resigned in protest of the Iraq War. Now he has Alzheimer's and has gone to the Pentagon to meet with the Chief of Naval Operations days after appearing on CNN criticizing the Navy for abandoning US values claiming he was recently attacked in Washington DC by a team of Al Qaeda commandos and he wants to be reactivated so he can take command of a ship and go looking for a high profile individual who has gone missing. Also, he was found recently sleeping on a park bench in DC on the day he claims he was attacked, and the police report about when he was found says there was no evidence of the attack in question. You know damn well he's going to be yelled at and turned away, so it should be no surprise the same happened to Picard.
But then I suppose 24th century utopia is supposed to abandon common sense in favor of doing the right thing. Or maybe because Starfleet isn't a military we shouldn't expect such rigid policies from them. Or something.
Or, look at this analogy. Imagine in the modern day a retired US Navy Admiral who resigned in protest of the Iraq War. Now he has Alzheimer's and has gone to the Pentagon to meet with the Chief of Naval Operations days after appearing on CNN criticizing the Navy for abandoning US values claiming he was recently attacked in Washington DC by a team of Al Qaeda commandos and he wants to be reactivated so he can take command of a ship and go looking for a high profile individual who has gone missing. Also, he was found recently sleeping on a park bench in DC on the day he claims he was attacked, and the police report about when he was found says there was no evidence of the attack in question. You know damn well he's going to be yelled at and turned away, so it should be no surprise the same happened to Picard.
But then I suppose 24th century utopia is supposed to abandon common sense in favor of doing the right thing. Or maybe because Starfleet isn't a military we shouldn't expect such rigid policies from them. Or something.
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Humans should not act like humans, nor have human emotions.
They're supposed to be open to the possibilities not just common sense. That's why in All Good Things in the past the crew makes a leap of faith for a Picard they never met before and was acting completely crazy. They are able to have faith in him and follow him into the anomaly. Same with the crew he assembles in this show.
So there's kind of a standard Picard set that humanity could better itself, and Clancy and the federation screwed up in this one. They're great characters, but they are just as bad as any crazy admiral from TNG.
So there's kind of a standard Picard set that humanity could better itself, and Clancy and the federation screwed up in this one. They're great characters, but they are just as bad as any crazy admiral from TNG.
But then, in 1996, this US Navy Admiral was in charge of a nuclear submarine that saved Washington, DC from destruction by a, uh, Serbian flotilla or something. But then, the Serbians managed to time travel to 1863 and the submarine was caught in its temporal wake and ended up saving Abraham Lincoln and preventing a temporal paradox.
Yes, but based upon the information they had they made their best decision they could. It doesn't make Picard any less arrogant just because he ends up being right.
Sorry, but even if Clancy screwed up Picard is still wrong.
I might be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure at the end of that same episode Clancy actually goes to Commodore Oh and asks her to look into it. She does raise Picard’s concerns, even if she doesn’t 100% believe them. Of course, Oh being Oh, she promptly brushes it under the rug.
You are not misremembering.
I agree that Picard marching into Clancy's office to request a ship couldn't fail to look arrogant from Starfleet's perspective. It's a bit like publicly slagging off an old employer, then going to them a few days later asking for a glowing reference.
Doesn't matter if he was right in the end, Clancy made a legitimate decision based on the information which was available to her at hand at the moment. Which admittedly might have been slanted somewhat by her personal views on Picard, but not enough that disregarding them would have made a difference.
Yeah, but that was 1996. It doesn't make sense in 2020 to give command of a naval ship to aging individual with a neurological disorder who talks shit about the US military at one moment and is on their doorstep the next with a story about terrorist commandos only he seems to be aware of. Regardless of how heroic his past was and how much of the modern world's existence and freedom he is responsible for.
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Oh's response to Clancy was so obviously a brush off, anyone with an open mind would do a little more digging than that. She didnt even keep enough tabs to know about the attack on Picard's home apparently otherwise could have intervened earlier.
That attitude was like the complete opposite of the qualities that let them accomplish many missions in TNG, open mind, understanding others, respecting etc...
They screwed up way before that by even letting the guy resign and pretty much caused their own bad press.
And unless they have amnesia, they should know from his reports that the last time Picard had a neurological disorder and wild claims he saved everyone from the anomaly. So yeah get the man a ship or at least assign him as a civilian to one.
That attitude was like the complete opposite of the qualities that let them accomplish many missions in TNG, open mind, understanding others, respecting etc...
They screwed up way before that by even letting the guy resign and pretty much caused their own bad press.
And unless they have amnesia, they should know from his reports that the last time Picard had a neurological disorder and wild claims he saved everyone from the anomaly. So yeah get the man a ship or at least assign him as a civilian to one.
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Again, she’s not mustache twirling, but 1) Picard WAS right. The system as is failed to capitalize on that. 2) She was wrong not to push for helping the Romulans. It wouldn’t have been easy, but that’s the job. She did a fine job explaining her thinking, but she should have taken on that fight — surplus ships to save 900 Million People.
I don't think anyone would dispute that, knowing what we know as an audience, Picard was right. However, from Clancy's perspective, Picard had just slated Starfleet, then shown up asking for a ship and crew, without any evidence.
It does if he’s famous as Lincoln and the commandos are from a people renowned as masters of espionage, people who he was going to be “ass deep in for the rest of [his] life.” Picard literally saved the entire human race. Multiple times. How many times during the various series does the crew have to contend with entertaining an open mind because of the nature of the world they live in? Inane vloggers and pundits might have balked at the idea of Picard on mission after criticizing Starfleet, but Starfleet should have had a thicker skin.
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