Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Danja]

Star Trek: Picard Showrunner Wanted to Examine What Utopia Really Meant

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/star-trek-picard-utopia-showrunner-wanted-examine-really-meant/

 

[Vger23]

Age has nothing to do with it. I am referring to how the character has been written and portrayed. Picard could have been 97 and kept his authority and sense of presence. A deliberate decision was made to have him be weak and bow and scrape constantly.

The vast majority of the general public who watched and liked Picard on TNG I don't believe tuned in to see him reduced in stature like he has been.

I love how this series deconstructed the character of Picard and forced him to face his flaws and humanity. It was very much like what the arc of TWOK and TSFS were for Kirk.

A slice of humble pie and reality was exactly what the doctor ordered.

I used to find Picard to be a pretty boring, white-knight character who bordered on parody he was so virtuous and honorable. Now I find him to be a much more interesting character overall because of this series.

 

[Vger23]

Im still kinda struggling to see how this applies to Picard honestly. Picard worked his way up with his service and time on the Stargazer. He's the first in his family to go into space. TNG ends with him entering the poker game with a true sense of appreciation for his crew and the ship. In this one he walked away from that to help the Romulans. Aside from having a family vineyard I don't see how he's that privileged in the story.

I think it applies from the perspective of it was easy for Picard to sing the praises of evolved humanity, sermonize everyone about the importance of THE TRUTH, and look down his nose at other cultures (or humans from past times) for being barbaric and backward whilst sipping his tea and reading Shakespeare on the most luxurious and powerful starship in the Federation, surrounded by the best and brightest humanity had to offer.

It's that kind of privilege.

And the series adeptly shoved it right back into the character's face. Which I thought was brilliant and actually makes me appreciate him more as a character overall.

 

[Arpy]

I think we need to try harder to understand each other. TNG is my favorite series and I adore utopia, but I enjoyed this decidedly darker sadder series immensely. At some point, Trek needs to do something that further boldly presents a more functional society, and maybe we'll get some of that in the upcoming Strange New Worlds, but PIC is a fantastic series, and let's not not appreciate that. I haven't enjoyed a series as much since DS9, and that was a huge disappointment to me after TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

I used to find Picard to be a pretty boring, white-knight character who bordered on parody he was so virtuous and honorable. Now I find him to be a much more interesting character overall because of this series.

While I want white knight characters I do appreciate seeing them experience struggles and depression and challenges. Picard has become more interesting to me in this series and makes me want to rewatch TNG with a new lens.

 

[Vger23]

While I want white knight characters I do appreciate seeing them experience struggles and depression and challenges. Picard has become more interesting to me in this series and makes me want to rewatch TNG with a new lens.

There's nothing at all wrong with white knight characters...but having them be a little human and relatable makes them even better, because you can imagine yourself or others actually being that person, as opposed to someone so morally and ethically perfect that it's a borderline pipe dream.

 

[fireproof78]

There's nothing at all wrong with white knight characters...but having them be a little human and relatable makes them even better, because you can imagine yourself or others actually being that person, as opposed to someone so morally and ethically perfect that it's a borderline pipe dream.

Yes, indeed.

 

[Vger23]

Yes, indeed.

And if that makes PIC "not Star Trek" (as the OP claims) then I guess I like PIC better than Star Trek

 

[fireproof78]

And if that makes PIC "not Star Trek" (as the OP claims) then I guess I like PIC better than Star Trek

Oh, good point. And, since I like a lot of things that are called "not Star Trek (Kelvin films, DSC, Picard, TWOK), I guess I do like those better than Trek

 

[Lord Garth]

It's not Star Trek... it's Star Trek: Picard.

 

[Makarov]

I don't think Picard had it easy on the Enterprise. He was right on the frontline bringing those ideals into reality. When he helps Worf with his Klingon drama he doesnt just lecture he gets right up involved in it and the Klingons try to murder him and he kept going. He was willing to take an arrow just to help those other people understand he wasnt a god. He was willing to throw away his career to take a stand more than once in the series like defending Data's daughter.

Plus all the missions he did without the comfort of the Enterprise like the Chain of Command and going undercover a couple times.

After all that I can understand him being annoyed by primitive humanity or looking down at the federation in this series.

I just hope in s2 they dont do a seven of nine on him and have him start getting jaded like so many characters already out there

 

[Danja]

I just hope in s2 they dont do a seven of nine on him and have him start getting jaded like so many characters already out there

They could very well switch places, much like Mulder and Scully switched places in the later seasons of the X-Files.

Picard could become jaded and cynical while Seven has to be the optimist.

 

[fireproof78]

After all that I can understand him being annoyed by primitive humanity or looking down at the federation in this series.

Here's the thing-I get were Picard is coming from. That's why he is so great in this series. Both his and Starfleet's perspectives make sense. They are not entirely right and not entirely wrong either.

 

[Makarov]

I wouldn't really say Starfleet was right at all, with the reactionary banning entire lifeforms. No more right than admiral Satie's courtroom in the drumhead.

 

[Sci]

I wouldn't really say Starfleet was right at all, with the reactionary banning entire lifeforms. No more right than admiral Satie's courtroom in the drumhead.

Pedantic side-note: Starfleet didn't ban an entire lifeform. They have no such authority. The Federation Council and President banned the development of synthetic lifeforms. Just like how in real life, the United States Navy has no authority to pass a law, only Congress and the President do.

Anyway, the bit where Starfleet is kind of right is in calling out Jean-Luc's arrogance. You can't go on interstellar television and denounce Starfleet on Friday, and then walk into the C-in-C's office demanding your commission be re-activated and you be given command of a starship on Monday. And Jean-Luc "offering" to accept a demotion to captain is just icing on the cake of arrogance.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, it's not as if Picard was a hero in good standing and record with Starfleet flag officers at that point in history. Kirk went to Starfleet Admiral Morrow to request the Enterprise back so he could go save Spock from the Genesis Planet but got shot down because the Federation Science Council had issued an edict saying that no other ships could travel there. Picard got shot down because he'd been an arrogant, self-righteous prick who grandstanded, resigned from Starfleet and then spent the next 14 years believing he was the real victim.

 

[Arpy]

He got shot down because the brass didn’t want to help the Romulans. Clancy wasn’t mustache twirling, but Starfleet and the Council chose a less than exceptional path. Picard did the right thing. He played every card to save 900 Million People. Review Holo-Rios’s description of the man for why he had earned merit to play it. It isn’t “he’s a white night or he’s a self-righteous prick” dichotomy.

EDIT: what would TNG have been like if our heroes were Admiral or Ambassador Picard et al? I don’t buy that that world/perspective was only possible/confined to the flagship. Actually, we know what it would have been like: West Wing.

 

[Gonzo]

There were many in the Federation who didn't want to help the Romulans, they haven't made many friends over the years mainly due to the actions of the Romulan Military and Tal'Shiar, especially among the Andorians and Tellarites who are founder members of the Federation and have a big presence within Starfleets ranks.

Its no surprise that it was such a hard sell for Picard, many were looking for an excuse to cancel the rescue and the Commodore knew this and took advantage to further her own agenda.

Like I said in a previous post, heads should roll over it in Starfleet and the Federation, if not due to the loss of life then due to being made fools of by a Romulan spy.

 

[Arpy]

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how badly their government acted. Do we punish each soul for the actions of their elites? Should you be judged, or some newborn tomorrow, for the world they’re born into?

Plus, after the victors punished the Germans in WWI, where did that nation turn?

Then what did we do after the second go at it? Germany and Japan are friends and allies today and models for how to do victory right. Instead of generations of hate and theory about how things “have and will always be.” Hell, I’m about to cry thinking about it.

 

[fireproof78]

the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how badly their government acted. Do we punish each soul for the actions of their elites? Should you be judged, or some newborn tomorrow, for the world they’re born into?

That is not always clear.