DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Yeah...like early Golden Age, not that sugar water dopiness that was the Weisinger/Swan.

Yes. Let's use the forgettable and forgotten 13% (and shrinking) of his entire run as a basis for what the character should be. That's a solid idea that obviously few people thankfully agree with.

Question: If someone is 80 years old, are they still judged and compared to when they were 11, using only that time as the basis for who they truly are?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Yes. Let's use the forgettable and forgotten 13% (and shrinking) of his entire run as a basis for what the character should be. That's a solid idea that obviously few people thankfully agree with.

Yeah, let's keep using a worn out model that made the character the most lifeless, static "hero" stereotype that he was not in his early period. Yeah, let's keep the same old camp counselor / uncle image of the Swan/Weisinger period.

..only if you want a character that is more Super Friends than Superman.

 

[dahj]

https://twitter.com/ponysmasher/status/1266493852119994368

 

[The Realist]

https://twitter.com/ponysmasher/status/1266493852119994368

Sandberg's right, though, even the real thing wouldn't be an improvement. Scene's perfect the way it is in the film.

It's kind of a Jaws situation, where the mechanical shark not working well was actually a blessing in disguise, since it forced Spielberg to rely on suspense and dread, to the film's benefit. An actual cameo by Cavill in Shazam! wouldn't have been nearly as effective and funny as what we got.

 

[Ovation]

An actual cameo by Cavill in Shazam! wouldn't have been nearly as effective and funny as what we got.

Though the exact same scene shot with Cavill might have been even funnier (with bloopers on the home release showing a moustached Cavill goofing off with Levi).

 

[The Realist]

Though the exact same scene shot with Cavill might have been even funnier (with bloopers on the home release showing a moustached Cavill goofing off with Levi).

I busted out laughing at the hard cut to credits straight off Freddy's reaction. Supposedly, the original intent was to have Cavill sit down and have some dialogue. That might have worked in its own way, but not the same way, and I personally thought what we got was perfect.

 

[JD]

Yeah...like early Golden Age, not that sugar water dopiness that was the Weisinger/Swan.

That is not at all what I meant, I meant the version the Big Blue Boyscout that most people think of when they think of Superman.
I think with the country, and the world where it is right now, we really need a cheerful, optimistic, inspirational version of Superman more than we ever have.

 

[Christopher]

I think with the country, and the world where it is right now, we really need a cheerful, optimistic, inspirational version of Superman more than we ever have.

With the country where it is right now, what we need more than ever is a Superman who stands strongly for social justice and against fascism and intolerance, as he has so often in the past. Optimism is not passive cheerfulness, it's a motivation to keep fighting for what's right.

 

[Anwar]

With the country where it is right now, what we need more than ever is a Superman who stands strongly for social justice and against fascism and intolerance, as he has so often in the past. Optimism is not passive cheerfulness, it's a motivation to keep fighting for what's right.

The strange thing is folks thinking that Superman's brand of optimism and standing for justice is somehow cheesy and outdated but Captain America has become such a beloved character for those same reasons.

 

[fireproof78]

The strange thing is folks thinking that Superman's brand of optimism and standing for justice is somehow cheesy and outdated but Captain America has become such a beloved character for those same reasons.

Probably because Superman is an alien and Cap feels more real. But, I think that it can be done well, as @Christopher noted. And I had to share what Christopher posted:

 

[Ovation]

Probably because Superman is an alien and Cap feels more real.

Captain America is a man out of a past time that is viewed (with less justification than it deserves) as more morally upright than the present. Being "of another time" offers the character a great deal of slack as he's expected to be "corny" and "old-fashioned". Superman is originally of the same era, but he's portrayed as a contemporary character. Consequently, he's not given the same "slack" to be "corny" and "old-fashioned" without criticism. I am confident if Steve Rogers were meant to be a contemporary figure, he'd face far more criticism for his "old-fashioned" ways than he actually does.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That is not at all what I meant, I meant the version the Big Blue Boyscout that most people think of when they think of Superman.
I think with the country, and the world where it is right now, we really need a cheerful, optimistic, inspirational version of Superman more than we ever have.

You need realistic reactions in a real world, as Pollyanna-ish, camp counselor figures are out of touch as an idea or practical, believable application in a story set in present day. Original Superman was a perfect representation of how many Americans felt about the way to handle--even think about criminals, but what would come--the Weisinger-led era--was silly and reduced the character to something no more relatable than Bugs Bunny.

 

[Tosk]

I'm sure I've quoted it before, but...

“…for the contingent out there who sneer at heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and Captain America, those icons who still, at their core, represent selfless sacrifice for the greater good, and who justify their contempt by saying, oh, it’s so unrealistic, no one would ever be so noble… grow up. Seriously. Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters.” -- Greg Rucka.

(Not a response to any particular post.)

 

[suarezguy]

Part of the dismissiveness with Superman is probably related to that, at least in the Silver Age, he was overpowered, too invulnerable, people could easily feel that things were too easy for him.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Part of the dismissiveness with Superman is probably related to that, at least in the Silver Age, he was overpowered, too invulnerable, people could easily feel that things were too easy for him.

...and rarely had a thought that was not from the Whole Milk isle; a character is rather boring and predictable if he's spouting the same, minted do-gooder lines and never questions the world or his place in it.

 

[The Lensman]

Or was the reason that it was reworked because they were desperate for a smash hit after BvS didn't live up to expectations and created a fan backlash against their incarnation of the DC universe? It could be argued that the theatrical version is the one that was made because fans were listened to and that it was hastily put together resulting in a critical and financial failure in the eyes of the studio.

Pretty much. There were scenes in JL that pretty much screamed "Hey, see! That thing you criticized us for before? We're doing the opposite of that like you wanted!".

I loved the DC of BvS. Not a fan of every aspect of it, for sure. Nor is it the story I would've done this early in the game. The two fighting just didn't have the resonance it would've had later. But it is what it is. I also appreciate that Snyder was going for a serious tone ala 'Golden Age' or 'Kingdom Come' among others, and I loved those stories. Audience tastes, fickle as they are, were not the same at this point. But I still preferred this tone over the overly comedic MCU.

I'm excited for the Snyder Cut, but I haven't really followed all this stuff. I'll be happy to get a film that feels like an organic follow up to the previous film. Do I think it will automatically be better? No, that's as stupid as thinking it will automatically be worse. In the end, like most movies we're excited to see, I hope it'll be good.

...and rarely had a thought that was not from the Whole Milk isle; a character is rather boring and predictable if he's spouting the same, minted do-gooder lines and never questions the world or his place in it.

To be fair, that was pretty much EVERY superhero back then. Because the target audience was children and comic books were cheap, disposable entertainment.

 

[DigificWriter]

I contend that the viewpoint that the DCEU Superman is somehow not an "accurate " representation or presentation of the character is objectively invalid, and there are others - including members of this very community - who have been fans of the character for far longer than I have who concur with my stance.

 

[dahj]

Short peek at ZS's JL on Jason Momoa's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBlOrRjD7jF/

 

[Ovation]

Short peek at ZS's JL on Jason Momoa's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBlOrRjD7jF/

Cool. More, please.

 

[JD]

You need realistic reactions in a real world, as Pollyanna-ish, camp counselor figures are out of touch as an idea or practical, believable application in a story set in present day. Original Superman was a perfect representation of how many Americans felt about the way to handle--even think about criminals, but what would come--the Weisinger-led era--was silly and reduced the character to something no more relatable than Bugs Bunny.

You can still find believable ways for a modern character to be positive, happy, and optimistic. I cannot even begin to express how depressing it is to me that that is seen as somehow impossible these days.